Dear Bill
 
Well, we would be in agreement in terms of Soto Zen Buddhism.  It was  the 
first tradition that I found after being raised Christian.  In those  days 
Zen seemed to flank my Existential Atheism.  I thought I was finished  
forever with Christianity. But you know how it goes with young people and  
their 
enthusiasms.  
 
Zen has also been central to my practice. While I am someone he is sort of  
a psychonaut -- Magick, Sufism, Gnosticism, Hermeticism, Secret Orders,  
Qabbalah, etc . . . Zen has always been the base, if you will, out of which I  
operate.  
 
I currently have a Tantric Teacher, am enrolled in a Hermetic School (Tarot 
 and Qabbalistic), and was initiated into Sufism years ago. I even 
practiced  Islam for a number of years.  
 
But Zen has always been central to my path.  
 
best wishes
 
Kirk
 
 
In a message dated 9/10/2010 7:55:10 P.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  
billsm...@hhs1963.org writes:

 
 
 
Kirk,

I liked your post below. I do think, in fact BELIEVE, that  most of the 
difference we see in the disparate religions are superficial,  mainly teaching 
techniques that have been developed to lead you eventually to  the same 
place.

It is likely just my own prejudice or at least my more  extensive 
familiarity, but I do think Japanese Soto Zen Buddhism has the least  amount of 
'fluff' and most straight-forward teaching techniques. This is  important, 
because (to paraphrase one of your analogies below) once you reach  the other 
shore you need to let go of your attachment to the boat. With most  religions 
that is very, very hard to do, and in fact actively  discouraged.

...Bill!

From: _zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com)   
[mailto:_zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com) ] On  
Behalf Of _novelid...@aol.com_ (mailto:novelid...@aol.com) 
Sent: Saturday,  September 11, 2010 5:51 AM
To: _zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com) 
Subject:  Re: [Zen] Other traditions

Anthony

I think you have the  beginnings of something. The Tantric visualization 
approach and guidance along  the lines of Llamaism could be seen as a 
counterpart to zazen path of Zen, you  are using the outward (contemplation, 
meditation, etc) to reach greater inner  clarity and expression . . . You could 
make the case that once a certain  station is reached you are zazen, you are 
attention, the pure self, the  selflessness of self. 

Once again the Sufis address this over and over  again within the context 
of their teaching stories, meditation, action  techniques, gatherings, 
poetry, etc -- drinking the wine and going beyond the  vessel . . . same thing 
as 
gone gone to the other shore . . .don't need the  boat anymore. 


Kirk
In a message dated 9/10/2010 2:38:13 P.M.  Pacific Daylight Time, 
_wu...@yahoo.com.sg_ (mailto:wu...@yahoo.com.sg)   writes:

Bill,

I am 90% in agreement with you. There are a lot of  differences between 
Tibetan Tantra and traditional Buddhism. The most  significant is their 
attitude and practice on sex rituals. On the other hand,  the Tantra also has a 
lot 
of colorful and spectacular techniques. If they help  some. why not 
practice them whether or not they can be consifered  Buddhism

Anthony

--- On Fri, 10/9/10, _billsm...@hhs1963.org_ (mailto:billsm...@hhs1963.org) 
 <_billsm...@hhs1963.org_ (mailto:billsm...@hhs1963.org) >  wrote:

From: _billsm...@hhs1963.org_ (mailto:billsm...@hhs1963.org)  
<_billsm...@hhs1963.org_ (mailto:billsm...@hhs1963.org) >
Subject:  RE: [Zen] Other traditions
To: _zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com) 
Date:  Friday, 10 September, 2010, 9:47 PM

DP,

I myself don’t consider  Tibetan ‘Buddhism’ actually Buddhist. I should 
more rightfully be classified  as ‘Lamaism’ – with maybe some Buddhist 
terminology. It’s chock full of  superstitions, gods and spirits and a lot of 
mysticism (and not just ‘chi’),  the most well known of which is their belief 
that the Dalai Lama which is  their ‘God-King’, and whom they believe is a 
reincarnation of the former Dalai  Lama clear back to an actual ‘god’ (of 
Compassion).

And don’t get me  started on the Dalai Lama…Bill! 
From: _zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com)   
[mailto:_zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com) ] On  
Behalf Of DP
Sent: Friday, September 10, 2010 8:49 AM
To: _zen_fo...@yahoogroups.com_ (mailto:Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com) 
Subject:  [Zen] Other traditions
I have a strange feeling towards other Buddhist  traditions. While I find 
interesting messages in reading about Christianity or  even Islam and Judaism 
(Hinduism I find too alien, although I love some of the  imagery and 
mythology), I have a sort of block against other Buddhist  traditions. I can 
admire somone like the The Dalai Lama, but I find Tibetan  Buddhism too 
esoteric. 
I have had a few negative experiences on chat boards  with other Buddhists 
in Theravada and Vajranaya traditions, where they even  denigrated Zen. Does 
anyone else find that other Buddhist traditions seem  odder to them than 
traditions outside Buddhism?

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