I agree with Bill on this very much. When people ask me I tell them I am a 
zennist (some of the old Chinese masters used this word), not a buddhist. I 
think zen definitely is not a sub-set or in any way dependent on buddhism. I 
also agree with Thomas Cleary, as he said in one of his translations: That zen 
requires awareness alone, does not depend on a particular background in any 
form of Asian culture, that zen applies directly to the relationship between 
mind and culture itself, no matter what that culture may be, and therefore it 
relates immediately to the way in which the world is experienced and life is 
lived, wherever one may be. 

While I respect other people's choices deeply- religion, "spiritual movements', 
etc do not interest me in the least- to me they grossly over-complicate what is 
actually a very simple matter. To me, while mysticism can be very pretty, it's 
really just another layer of concepts and judgements that will have to be 
dropped later - so why pick it up in the first place? I hope I'm being clear 
and making sense :-)

Artie

--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, <billsm...@...> wrote:

> As I said in an earlier post, I don't consider zen a sub-set or exclusively 
> dependent upon Buddhism.  







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