Hi, Anthony

Just an ignorant, but what I have read about tantra practices of sex and eating 
meat, were accompanied with a "disclaimer": the sex and eating meat were done 
as such in non inner circles.
In the inner circles, was a metaphoric,or as you want to call it, thing. In 
this way, nothing that could not be done in a monastery. Would be like the 
catholic comunion: people are eating the flesh and blood of Christ under the 
form of a piece of bread. They were not cannibals.

I also remember to have read that in the moment of climax the perception of 
reality could be glimpsed. Maybe like the mini satory in Zen. Could be. Could 
be not, I could not say. We depend in hormons, chemistry could play games...
Even if that sounds too close to solipsism....

Books were from i belived where serious sources.
But as I said, I am an ignorant. I have not a teacher, and the stay in a 
buddhist community in Catalonia raised me some (well, a lot) questions. So....

With best wishes

Lluís
  ----- Original Message ----- 
  From: Anthony Wu 
  To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 10:46 PM
  Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas


    
        Kristy,

        I appreciate your candor and enjoy your stories. I understand you had 
an eventless nde, but colorful sex experiences. You should be satisfied. Why 
should you question dharma, scriptures and the meaning of exitence? 

        I know sex climax, LSD and ndes are all different, hard to compare. 
Forgetting how a senior runner should perform for the time being, my original 
question is how Tantra reconcile sexuality and Buddhism (LSD and nde are not 
yet in the game). I am not against sex, as long as it is carried out in an 
appropriate place, including an 'orgyhouse'. But it is a different matter when 
it is performed in a monastry.

        Anthony

        --- On Mon, 8/11/10, Kristy McClain <healthypl...@yahoo.com> wrote:


          From: Kristy McClain <healthypl...@yahoo.com>
          Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas
          To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
          Date: Monday, 8 November, 2010, 6:25 AM


            
                Hi Anthony,

                You bring up  a good point. I will say that while the 
particular experience I shared was fairly athletic in the physical sensations, 
I don't  necessarily think that age or  disability precludes this same inner 
intensity and, for lack of a better word, 'peak ' experience. Similarly, senior 
runners often complete marathons and  experience  the same endorphin "highs" as 
the younger participants.  In those events, they are likely a result of 
physiology more so than spirit, but you  understand my point. We all know that 
a major key to eroticism is between our ears, not  our legs. 

                I shared that particular experience because it was so very  
intense, yet it was not something born from  practice, preparation or love. To 
the contrary. I met this man through mutual friends   years ago. While there 
was an immediate physical attraction, I felt initially very intimidated by his 
career/ education and background. I thought he would be very judgemental of me, 
and I feel inadequate by comparison.

                Since we had no prior contact, and I had no reason to believe  
this would lead anywhere, I just decided to be gracious, but very down-to-earth 
and honest about myself. I was going to school in Palo Alto, and he lived in 
Newport Beach.  When  we met again in L.A. a few weeks later,  this just 
'happened'.  Neither of us really knew how to handle it afterwards.

                I'm not sure I agree that a similar experience can be induced 
by-- say a drug like LSD. Yes--  hallucinogenics have induced some amazing 
altered states, but, I am doubtful they are the same. Not better nor worse, but 
different.

                Having had a near-death experience, I cannot  report anything  
like I read in the books. 

                I dunno-- I don't personally believe there is a 'recipe' that 
can be  followed, learned, practiced or guided towards,  so that one can 
experience this state of bliss / nirvana / enlightment / god-source and the 
like. It is, in fact, my total life experience that does make me question the 
dharma, the scriptures, the psycho-biology of the meaning of existence. Its not 
a zero-sum game. 

                At this point in my life, I think there are different paths for 
each of us.

                Enjoy your eve.. Kristy


                --- On Sun, 11/7/10, Anthony Wu <wu...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:


                  From: Anthony Wu <wu...@yahoo.com.sg>
                  Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas
                  To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
                  Date: Sunday, November 7, 2010, 2:12 PM


                    
                        Kristy,

                        I understand. I am 71. When I was young, I had similar 
experiences, though not so often, as it depended on occassions and surroudings. 
Like you say, that explains why Tantrism puts so much significance on sexism, 
as it definitely is 'spiritual', in addition to physical. However, there are 
other ways. How about heroin and other drugs? They induce similar experiences. 
I have not tried them, but read some 'fantastic' descriptions. On the other 
hand, near death experiences seem to be another type. There is bliss, but does 
not appear to be 'mind blowing'. 

                        Anthony

                        --- On Sun, 7/11/10, Kristy McClain 
<healthypl...@yahoo.com> wrote:


                          From: Kristy McClain <healthypl...@yahoo.com>
                          Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas 
Aquinas
                          To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
                          Date: Sunday, 7 November, 2010, 6:44 PM


                            
                                Anthony,

                                As I have neither the time nor expertise to 
substitute  there.. let me offer a  more serious thought. 

                                If you  truly are asking a question about if or 
how sexuality  intersects with spirituality, I can say that I had an experience 
wherein there was such a fusion of physical body and soul / heart / mind 
energies (however you  interpret those), that it was  as if space and time fell 
away or  did not exist. There were no egos, secrets, inhibitions or thoughts. 
Consciousness and physicality merged. Its primal energy and primordial spirit. 
Animal intensity but somehow driven by a soul awareness for which there are no 
words. An intensity beyond measure and impossible to duplicate exactly. An 
intimacy so profound it felt like touching God-source (however  defined). A 
complete acceptance of energy flow.


                                I couldn't speak for a day. My body tingled for 
nearly a week. I had no desire for food and drank only small amounts of water 
at a time for days. Its just un-defineable. Its experential.

                                But , for me, it left me believing in "spirit" 
(beit mind /heart or soul).  k


                                --- On Sat, 11/6/10, Anthony Wu 
<wu...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote:


                                From: Anthony Wu <wu...@yahoo.com.sg>
                                Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. 
Thomas Aquinas
                                To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Saturday, November 6, 2010, 4:50 PM


                                  
                                K and E,

                                My local zen center just had the teacher quit. 
Who will apply for the job to supervise the activities in the basement?

                                A

                                --- On Sun, 7/11/10, Kristy McClain 
<healthypl...@yahoo.com> wrote:


                                From: Kristy McClain <healthypl...@yahoo.com>
                                Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. 
Thomas Aquinas
                                To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Sunday, 7 November, 2010, 2:43 AM


                                  

                                Good Morning Ed,

                                I think you may be confusing femininst with 
fem-domme here. Its likely that Tim understands the joys of ball-clamps better 
than most.

                                As for Anthony-- if pain and pleasure  are the 
yin /yang of lust, perhaps a dungeon in the basement of his local zen center is 
precisely where he should begin his journey.

                                Rainy here today. I love a rany day now and 
again. A day for tea and contemplation, or simply a day to stay in bed? Perhaps 
the net experience is the same. 

                                Be well.. k



                                --- On Sat, 11/6/10, ED 
<seacrofter...@yahoo.com> wrote:


                                From: ED <seacrofter...@yahoo.com>
                                Subject: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas 
Aquinas
                                To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
                                Date: Saturday, November 6, 2010, 8:57 AM


                                  

                                 

                                OTOH, one ball-breaking liaison with an 
American feminist might cure A's curiosity about Tantric sex for good!  ;-)  e

                                --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristy 
McClain <healthypl...@...> wrote:
                                >
                                > *chuckles*
                                > 
                                > Well then-- I dare say that you have a 
homework assignment this weekend. Please don't spare us any of the details 
Monday morning.
                                >  
                                > Is it comparable with buddhism? I can offer 
that Bill IS correct on this point because it truly is 'just this'!  A true 
experience of universal one-ness, with no need for ego, intellect or thought of 
any kind. I invite you to seek your tantric tigress and let the flow of energy 
be your guide.  Enjoy ;)  k


                                > Kristy,
                                > I haven't had a mind blowing experience for a 
long time, but I will search in my memory to locate it. 
                                > My curiosity on Tantrism in regard to sex 
remains. Is it compatible with Buddhism? 
                                > Anthony

                                 
                                > Anthony;)
                                >  
                                > One experience of truly mind-blowing sex can 
tell you this.  Enjoy your weekend...K


                                > ......"they shed light on the relationship 
with lust and spiritualism.
                                >  
                                > I am curious why Tantrism attaches so much 
significance to that.
                                >  
                                > Anthony
                                 

                                 

                               

                       

               

       



  

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