Hi, Anthony Just an ignorant, but what I have read about tantra practices of sex and eating meat, were accompanied with a "disclaimer": the sex and eating meat were done as such in non inner circles. In the inner circles, was a metaphoric,or as you want to call it, thing. In this way, nothing that could not be done in a monastery. Would be like the catholic comunion: people are eating the flesh and blood of Christ under the form of a piece of bread. They were not cannibals.
I also remember to have read that in the moment of climax the perception of reality could be glimpsed. Maybe like the mini satory in Zen. Could be. Could be not, I could not say. We depend in hormons, chemistry could play games... Even if that sounds too close to solipsism.... Books were from i belived where serious sources. But as I said, I am an ignorant. I have not a teacher, and the stay in a buddhist community in Catalonia raised me some (well, a lot) questions. So.... With best wishes Lluís ----- Original Message ----- From: Anthony Wu To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Sent: Monday, November 08, 2010 10:46 PM Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas Kristy, I appreciate your candor and enjoy your stories. I understand you had an eventless nde, but colorful sex experiences. You should be satisfied. Why should you question dharma, scriptures and the meaning of exitence? I know sex climax, LSD and ndes are all different, hard to compare. Forgetting how a senior runner should perform for the time being, my original question is how Tantra reconcile sexuality and Buddhism (LSD and nde are not yet in the game). I am not against sex, as long as it is carried out in an appropriate place, including an 'orgyhouse'. But it is a different matter when it is performed in a monastry. Anthony --- On Mon, 8/11/10, Kristy McClain <healthypl...@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Kristy McClain <healthypl...@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, 8 November, 2010, 6:25 AM Hi Anthony, You bring up a good point. I will say that while the particular experience I shared was fairly athletic in the physical sensations, I don't necessarily think that age or disability precludes this same inner intensity and, for lack of a better word, 'peak ' experience. Similarly, senior runners often complete marathons and experience the same endorphin "highs" as the younger participants. In those events, they are likely a result of physiology more so than spirit, but you understand my point. We all know that a major key to eroticism is between our ears, not our legs. I shared that particular experience because it was so very intense, yet it was not something born from practice, preparation or love. To the contrary. I met this man through mutual friends years ago. While there was an immediate physical attraction, I felt initially very intimidated by his career/ education and background. I thought he would be very judgemental of me, and I feel inadequate by comparison. Since we had no prior contact, and I had no reason to believe this would lead anywhere, I just decided to be gracious, but very down-to-earth and honest about myself. I was going to school in Palo Alto, and he lived in Newport Beach. When we met again in L.A. a few weeks later, this just 'happened'. Neither of us really knew how to handle it afterwards. I'm not sure I agree that a similar experience can be induced by-- say a drug like LSD. Yes-- hallucinogenics have induced some amazing altered states, but, I am doubtful they are the same. Not better nor worse, but different. Having had a near-death experience, I cannot report anything like I read in the books. I dunno-- I don't personally believe there is a 'recipe' that can be followed, learned, practiced or guided towards, so that one can experience this state of bliss / nirvana / enlightment / god-source and the like. It is, in fact, my total life experience that does make me question the dharma, the scriptures, the psycho-biology of the meaning of existence. Its not a zero-sum game. At this point in my life, I think there are different paths for each of us. Enjoy your eve.. Kristy --- On Sun, 11/7/10, Anthony Wu <wu...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote: From: Anthony Wu <wu...@yahoo.com.sg> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 7, 2010, 2:12 PM Kristy, I understand. I am 71. When I was young, I had similar experiences, though not so often, as it depended on occassions and surroudings. Like you say, that explains why Tantrism puts so much significance on sexism, as it definitely is 'spiritual', in addition to physical. However, there are other ways. How about heroin and other drugs? They induce similar experiences. I have not tried them, but read some 'fantastic' descriptions. On the other hand, near death experiences seem to be another type. There is bliss, but does not appear to be 'mind blowing'. Anthony --- On Sun, 7/11/10, Kristy McClain <healthypl...@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Kristy McClain <healthypl...@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, 7 November, 2010, 6:44 PM Anthony, As I have neither the time nor expertise to substitute there.. let me offer a more serious thought. If you truly are asking a question about if or how sexuality intersects with spirituality, I can say that I had an experience wherein there was such a fusion of physical body and soul / heart / mind energies (however you interpret those), that it was as if space and time fell away or did not exist. There were no egos, secrets, inhibitions or thoughts. Consciousness and physicality merged. Its primal energy and primordial spirit. Animal intensity but somehow driven by a soul awareness for which there are no words. An intensity beyond measure and impossible to duplicate exactly. An intimacy so profound it felt like touching God-source (however defined). A complete acceptance of energy flow. I couldn't speak for a day. My body tingled for nearly a week. I had no desire for food and drank only small amounts of water at a time for days. Its just un-defineable. Its experential. But , for me, it left me believing in "spirit" (beit mind /heart or soul). k --- On Sat, 11/6/10, Anthony Wu <wu...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote: From: Anthony Wu <wu...@yahoo.com.sg> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 6, 2010, 4:50 PM K and E, My local zen center just had the teacher quit. Who will apply for the job to supervise the activities in the basement? A --- On Sun, 7/11/10, Kristy McClain <healthypl...@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Kristy McClain <healthypl...@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, 7 November, 2010, 2:43 AM Good Morning Ed, I think you may be confusing femininst with fem-domme here. Its likely that Tim understands the joys of ball-clamps better than most. As for Anthony-- if pain and pleasure are the yin /yang of lust, perhaps a dungeon in the basement of his local zen center is precisely where he should begin his journey. Rainy here today. I love a rany day now and again. A day for tea and contemplation, or simply a day to stay in bed? Perhaps the net experience is the same. Be well.. k --- On Sat, 11/6/10, ED <seacrofter...@yahoo.com> wrote: From: ED <seacrofter...@yahoo.com> Subject: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 6, 2010, 8:57 AM OTOH, one ball-breaking liaison with an American feminist might cure A's curiosity about Tantric sex for good! ;-) e --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristy McClain <healthypl...@...> wrote: > > *chuckles* > > Well then-- I dare say that you have a homework assignment this weekend. Please don't spare us any of the details Monday morning. > > Is it comparable with buddhism? I can offer that Bill IS correct on this point because it truly is 'just this'!Â A true experience of universal one-ness, with no need for ego, intellect or thought of any kind. I invite you to seek your tantric tigress and let the flow of energy be your guide.Â Enjoy ;) k > Kristy, > I haven't had a mind blowing experience for a long time, but I will search in my memory to locate it. > My curiosity on Tantrism in regard to sex remains. Is it compatible with Buddhism? > Anthony > Anthony;) > > One experience of truly mind-blowing sex can tell you this. Enjoy your weekend...K > ......"they shed light on the relationship with lust and spiritualism. > > I am curious why Tantrism attaches so much significance to that. > > Anthony