Kristy, I take your advice. No problem. I will cry any moment. But may not be able to do it, because you said you were not offended. Anthony
--- On Tue, 9/11/10, Kristy McClain <healthypl...@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Kristy McClain <healthypl...@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, 9 November, 2010, 10:19 AM Anthony, I am not offended at all. But perhaps you should cry anyway. It is clear that you have deep and conflicted feelings about this issue, and have for a very long time. You seem stuck here. The same question has plagued you like a bad mantra for too long. I think a good cry and opening up your heart to your deepest longings can serve as a fresh start. I am not that familar with the work of Byron Katie, but I remember that she has four key questions that she advises others to consider when confronted with a dilemma. Ask yourself: 1-- Is it true? 2--Do you know for certain if it is true? 3-- How do you react when you believe it is true? 4-- Would you "be" (at all) without this belief /thought? Then reverse them. So, for example, if one had an abusive mother.. Go through the steps.. Then to reverse them, say : Yes , she is abusive, and the reverse is how do I abuse her? And so on... Admittedly, this is a different tract than zen-- but franklyy, I can't see that the past few years of zen has helped you break free of this issue, so perhaps a change in venue is advised. If not this-- something. Take care.. Kristy --- On Mon, 11/8/10, Anthony Wu <wu...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote: From: Anthony Wu <wu...@yahoo.com.sg> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 8, 2010, 6:00 PM Kristy, If you take offence at anything I say, I will weep under my pillow. Yes, sex can be connected with spirituality, like you experienced, sometimes you feel the disappearance of ego. But it is different whether it can coexist with Buddhism. Everytime I read Tantric Buddhism on the subject, I had a mixed feeling of amusement and shock. That is why I mention it on this forym to bring some liveliness to it. As regards ndes, it means near death experiences. Didn't you say you had it, but with not so much events as described in some reports? Anyway, thanks a lot for your stories. They will stay in my memories for a long time. Something to refer to frequently. Anthony --- On Tue, 9/11/10, Kristy McClain <healthypl...@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Kristy McClain <healthypl...@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, 9 November, 2010, 7:45 AM Anthony, I'm not sure I understand your point. You are the one who brings up the topic of sex in conjunction (I assume) with spirituality. Specifically tantra and Buiddhism. I don't view or use sex as a means to sacred spiritual awareness It is part of my relationship with a man I love. While I find your comments abrupt, they are also confusing. I don't know what you mean by ndes, and you lost me with the comment on LSD and senior runners. You mentioned drug-induced states, so I commented on that as an adjunct. I thought your point was that you wanted to find some type of spiritual awareness /awakening via sex and orgy-houses, as part of a buddhist /zen practice. I don't even know what an orgy-house is. Is that a brothel? I understand orgy as train-sex. Thats not my style, and how one could ever see orgy sex as sacred is beyond me. But go for it. Moreover, when I questioned you initially about why you mention it so often, you stated that it gave some humor to the forum. I shared a personal experience as a means to open a dialogue about a topic you seem to care deeply about. Perhaps it is a cultural mis-perception. I felt that you discuss it alot because you actually have unfulfilled needs, and I was trying to offer my support by suggesting that sex can be a part of life at any age. I question dharma, and many spiritual disciplines, mostly because I am not seeking a guru as a means to an end. My zen and other spiritual practices are part of a balanced lifestyle. They are not my entire focus. They serve as a foundation to guide me in my work, relationships, values and character. They are the base of my integrity and help me offer what I can in my everyday , busy life. They help me resolve conflicts. They mediate my stress. They guide my compassion and offer some wisdom. But I do not cling to a particular dharma path or religious doctrine. I allow those to flow within, and change over time, as everything does. As said before, what works for others is completely fine with me. Be well.. Kristy --- On Mon, 11/8/10, Anthony Wu <wu...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote: From: Anthony Wu <wu...@yahoo.com.sg> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 8, 2010, 2:46 PM Kristy, I appreciate your candor and enjoy your stories. I understand you had an eventless nde, but colorful sex experiences. You should be satisfied. Why should you question dharma, scriptures and the meaning of exitence? I know sex climax, LSD and ndes are all different, hard to compare. Forgetting how a senior runner should perform for the time being, my original question is how Tantra reconcile sexuality and Buddhism (LSD and nde are not yet in the game). I am not against sex, as long as it is carried out in an appropriate place, including an 'orgyhouse'. But it is a different matter when it is performed in a monastry. Anthony --- On Mon, 8/11/10, Kristy McClain <healthypl...@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Kristy McClain <healthypl...@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, 8 November, 2010, 6:25 AM Hi Anthony, You bring up a good point. I will say that while the particular experience I shared was fairly athletic in the physical sensations, I don't necessarily think that age or disability precludes this same inner intensity and, for lack of a better word, 'peak ' experience. Similarly, senior runners often complete marathons and experience the same endorphin "highs" as the younger participants. In those events, they are likely a result of physiology more so than spirit, but you understand my point. We all know that a major key to eroticism is between our ears, not our legs. I shared that particular experience because it was so very intense, yet it was not something born from practice, preparation or love. To the contrary. I met this man through mutual friends years ago. While there was an immediate physical attraction, I felt initially very intimidated by his career/ education and background. I thought he would be very judgemental of me, and I feel inadequate by comparison. Since we had no prior contact, and I had no reason to believe this would lead anywhere, I just decided to be gracious, but very down-to-earth and honest about myself. I was going to school in Palo Alto, and he lived in Newport Beach. When we met again in L.A. a few weeks later, this just 'happened'. Neither of us really knew how to handle it afterwards. I'm not sure I agree that a similar experience can be induced by-- say a drug like LSD. Yes-- hallucinogenics have induced some amazing altered states, but, I am doubtful they are the same. Not better nor worse, but different. Having had a near-death experience, I cannot report anything like I read in the books. I dunno-- I don't personally believe there is a 'recipe' that can be followed, learned, practiced or guided towards, so that one can experience this state of bliss / nirvana / enlightment / god-source and the like. It is, in fact, my total life experience that does make me question the dharma, the scriptures, the psycho-biology of the meaning of existence. Its not a zero-sum game. At this point in my life, I think there are different paths for each of us. Enjoy your eve.. Kristy --- On Sun, 11/7/10, Anthony Wu <wu...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote: From: Anthony Wu <wu...@yahoo.com.sg> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, November 7, 2010, 2:12 PM Kristy, I understand. I am 71. When I was young, I had similar experiences, though not so often, as it depended on occassions and surroudings. Like you say, that explains why Tantrism puts so much significance on sexism, as it definitely is 'spiritual', in addition to physical. However, there are other ways. How about heroin and other drugs? They induce similar experiences. I have not tried them, but read some 'fantastic' descriptions. On the other hand, near death experiences seem to be another type. There is bliss, but does not appear to be 'mind blowing'. Anthony --- On Sun, 7/11/10, Kristy McClain <healthypl...@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Kristy McClain <healthypl...@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, 7 November, 2010, 6:44 PM Anthony, As I have neither the time nor expertise to substitute there.. let me offer a more serious thought. If you truly are asking a question about if or how sexuality intersects with spirituality, I can say that I had an experience wherein there was such a fusion of physical body and soul / heart / mind energies (however you interpret those), that it was as if space and time fell away or did not exist. There were no egos, secrets, inhibitions or thoughts. Consciousness and physicality merged. Its primal energy and primordial spirit. Animal intensity but somehow driven by a soul awareness for which there are no words. An intensity beyond measure and impossible to duplicate exactly. An intimacy so profound it felt like touching God-source (however defined). A complete acceptance of energy flow. I couldn't speak for a day. My body tingled for nearly a week. I had no desire for food and drank only small amounts of water at a time for days. Its just un-defineable. Its experential. But , for me, it left me believing in "spirit" (beit mind /heart or soul). k --- On Sat, 11/6/10, Anthony Wu <wu...@yahoo.com.sg> wrote: From: Anthony Wu <wu...@yahoo.com.sg> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 6, 2010, 4:50 PM K and E, My local zen center just had the teacher quit. Who will apply for the job to supervise the activities in the basement? A --- On Sun, 7/11/10, Kristy McClain <healthypl...@yahoo.com> wrote: From: Kristy McClain <healthypl...@yahoo.com> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, 7 November, 2010, 2:43 AM Good Morning Ed, I think you may be confusing femininst with fem-domme here. Its likely that Tim understands the joys of ball-clamps better than most. As for Anthony-- if pain and pleasure are the yin /yang of lust, perhaps a dungeon in the basement of his local zen center is precisely where he should begin his journey. Rainy here today. I love a rany day now and again. A day for tea and contemplation, or simply a day to stay in bed? Perhaps the net experience is the same. Be well.. k --- On Sat, 11/6/10, ED <seacrofter...@yahoo.com> wrote: From: ED <seacrofter...@yahoo.com> Subject: [Zen] Re: FW: Quote from St. Thomas Aquinas To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, November 6, 2010, 8:57 AM OTOH, one ball-breaking liaison with an American feminist might cure A's curiosity about Tantric sex for good! ;-) e --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, Kristy McClain <healthypl...@...> wrote: > > *chuckles* > > Well then-- I dare say that you have a homework assignment this weekend. > Please don't spare us any of the details Monday morning. > > Is it comparable with buddhism? I can offer that Bill IS correct on this > point because it truly is 'just this'! A true experience of universal > one-ness, with no need for ego, intellect or thought of any kind. I invite > you to seek your tantric tigress and let the flow of energy be your guide. > Enjoy ;) k > Kristy, > I haven't had a mind blowing experience for a long time, but I will search in > my memory to locate it. > My curiosity on Tantrism in regard to sex remains. Is it compatible with > Buddhism? > Anthony > Anthony;) > > One experience of truly mind-blowing sex can tell you this. Enjoy your > weekend...K > ......"they shed light on the relationship with lust and spiritualism. > > I am curious why Tantrism attaches so much significance to that. > > Anthony
