On 7/31/2012 2:48 PM, mike brown wrote:
Well, ultimately, of course, you're quite right - there is nothing lacking nor are there 'others' to convince.
Funny twist there, intentional or not. Indeed, I have convinced no one! *L*
However, I do know of Zen practioners whose practice would, I feel, benefit from a deeper appreciation of early Buddhist teachings. I also think my efforts are rather quite humble compared to those monks of a bygone era who climbed mountains and navigated oceans to spread the Dharma.
Many forms of expression.
After all, only because of such efforts, and the desire for others to benefit from the Dharma, are we having this conversation today.
This is the trap. This idea of "benefit'' and desire for same. Grasping, out of ignorance. If there is realization nothing lacks, what benefits?
'The Four Noble Truths' forms a riddle. The first and greatest Koan. The desire to awaken/help others, is not some special desire that is somehow not one of the three poisons. The Eightfold path is not a map. To see these as prescriptive, is short sighted.
I do not desire anything from conversation, yet much appears. What of it? Is this not enough?
I wonder how much of a coincidence it is that the Zen practioners I know of, who seem to have a shallow realisation...
To see it so, is the only way it can appear so. The mirror does not lie.
..., are also the ones who have never experienced samadhi (It always seems to be the ones who are most vocal against it are also the ones who have never experienced it..)
You speak generally, yet it seems you feel this measuring stick of yours matters and you would like to apply it to others. So. I'll play a little.
Samadhi, is fine. A natural state. A joy. I understand the power it can have for people, but other than self-absorption, what use is it? To who?
Simply forget yourself, and all points are one-point. I don't mean to make light of it, and I realize this is not simple for anyone seeking it, or who mistake it for a door, but this takes no effort and is nothing special. One experienced, it can be harder to not be in samadhi. Practices work both ways, giving an apparent point upon which to balance. Perhaps, this is why Zen focuses on practical things.
To ask if/say it is easier to realize 'Buddha Mind' from samadhi, is simply how this appears to practitioners who have found the state of samadhi and perceive realization to have come via or after. Yet if realization is not timeless, when else can there be realization? Samadhi or not, realized or not, all is 'Buddha mind'. Why hold up samadhi as some special achievement or test? Do those who awaken become examiners or judges?
Certainly, It may seem easier for one-point to cease/break/whatever, and reveal this than doing so surrounded by Mara's armies - but this is simply one way this appears. The contrast may be instructive, but there is no other difference!
Samadhi, as you have also noted, can be a trap (as can be the 'emptiness' in which samadhi/one-point focus appears to rest). Time spent escaping into in samadhi as a separate state - failing in love with samadhi. Such attachment prevents integration of samadhi as an ordinary aspect of what presents, and thus coming to have no separate concern or regard for it (not giving it up, but allowing the joy of this to infuse all experiencing - to realize all point as one point).
(How to talk about 'emptiness' yet never have read the Heart Sutra?)
(The same way it was written.) If you think it has special powers, or a corner on such expression, you have not truly read it and do not see where it points. Christians make the same mistake in idolizing their book (which it explicitly cautions against).
I would like to ask them why the Buddha taught anapanasati, samadhi, the jhanas
Is that so? Who tells you these things? Why do you waste time believing in pointers? If it appears this way for you, fine. It does to many others as well (this alone being reason enough for caution). Who cares what appeared to Buddha? This is not his message.
I'm not claiming that this is the only way to liberation and neither would I argue that one can't become awakened in total ignorance of the Budhha's teaching.
Of course. Ignorance of any such 'ways', can even appear to offer a shortcut to suchness, and ability to travel with no baggage. Of course, there can be no way to this. This was never apart, never lacks. Still, some like to live out of suitcases.
I just firmly belief that many practioners (Not all, maybe) could deepen their practice by incorporating the wisdom of the early Buddhist teachings and meditations. But then again, maybe that's just because I like bright and shiny things ; )
Yes. I am not disagreeing with this deepening practice business, but a deeper hole is no more or less empty.
KG
