Or the Blind Master from the 1970's Kung Fu series?


________________________________
 From: Kristopher Grey <[email protected]>
To: [email protected] 
Sent: Friday, 3 August 2012, 2:06
Subject: Re: [Zen] Samadhi
 

  
There was no refutation, no saying what samadhi is or isn't, only a clear 
warning about mounting a defense of it's value. One you clearly missed in your 
rush to defend it.

You may refute all you like, I was simply sharing something.

Your conversation with a dead man, is interesting though...


KG



On 8/2/2012 5:31 PM, mike brown wrote:

  
>Kris, 
>
>
>
>Quoting Bodhidharma to refute the place of samadhi/dhyana (jhana) is a bit 
>like cross-examing Mitt Romney in the hope he'll say something constructive 
>about free health care. Anyway, ...
>
>
>>Question: "What is a demon mind?" Answer: "Closing the eyes
>[in the cross-legged sitting posture] and entering
                samadhi."
>>Question: "[What if] I gather the mind into dhyana
                so that it does not 
>move?"
>>Answer: "This is bondage samadhi. It is useless.
>
>
>The sutras attributable to Buddha mention mindfulness about a dozen times. 
>Loving-kindness about a 100 times. Jhanas over a 1000 times. Staring at a wall 
>0 times. 
>
>
>
>>This holds even for the four dhyanas, each of which is merely one stage of 
>>quiescence from
>which you will return to disturbance again.
>
>
>Yes, exactly like zazen.
>
>
>>They are not to be valued.
>
>
>Not in themselves, no. But as a support to insight wisdom they are almost 
>indispensable. 
>
>
>>These are created dharmas,
>
>
>It's funny how the 4 jhanas follow the same method for everyone to enter them, 
>and when they are entered they follow the same pattern from first into second, 
>from second into third etc. This is true for everyone (the well-practiced 
>adept can move thru them quicker and enter them almost at will). Without the 
>hindrances, the mind moves to an ever still and pure state until the mind 
>disappears all together. 
>
>
>
>>dharmas that will be destroyed again, 
>
>
>
>Of course! And this is exactly the insight that wisdom comes from. All arises 
>and passes. We experience the kind of bliss in jhanas that cannot be 
>experienced in day to day life. We use mindfulness to penetrate the meaning of 
>craving experientially - not just intellectually.
>
>
>
>>not ultimate Dharma.
>
>
>Ultimate Dharma just is. Bohdidharma, at least in this quote, seems to be 
>mistaking the raft for the shore.
>
>
>
>>If you can understand that intrinsically there is neither
>quiescence nor disturbance, then you will be able to
                exist of yourself.
>
>
>I much prefer Dogen's '"To study the way is to study the self; to study the 
>self is to forget the self; to forget the self is to be enlightened by the 
>10000 things.".
>To study the self is exactly what Vipassana does. If you remember in a recent 
>post I said that to understand suffering is to realise that it is not 
>suffering that disappears, but the self that disappears.
>
>
>
>>The one who is not drawn into quiescence and disturbance is the man of
>spirit." Further: "If one is capable of not seizing on
                interpretations, not
>creating the mind of delusion, and not esteeming
                profound knowledge,
>then he will be a peaceful person. If there is one
                dharma to be esteemed
>or valued, this dharma will be the one most capable of
                binding and killing
>you, and you will fall into having mind. This is an
                unreliable state of
>affairs.
>
>
>
>I was listening to a video talk by the late Ayya Khema and she said that after 
>teaching hundreds of people the jhanas, she doesn't know of one person who has 
>become addicted to jhana meditation, or values them higher than insight wisdom.
>
>
>- Bodhidharma Antholgy, pg 35.
>
>
>Buddha rocks!
>
>
>Mike
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>________________________________
> From: Kristopher Grey <[email protected]>
>To: [email protected] 
>Sent: Thursday, 2 August 2012, 20:49
>Subject: Re: [Zen] Samadhi
> 
>
>  
>I'm not one to quote often, but came across this bit on samadhi today:
>
>Question: "What is a demon mind?" Answer:
                          "Closing the eyes
>[in the cross-legged sitting posture] and
                          entering samadhi."
>Question: "[What if] I gather the mind into
                          dhyana so that it does not 
>move?"
>Answer: "This is bondage samadhi. It is
                          useless. This holds even for the
>four dhyanas, each of which is merely one
                          stage of quiescence from
>which you will return to disturbance again.
                          They are not to be valued.
>These are created dharmas, dharmas that will
                          be destroyed again, not
>ultimate Dharma. If you can understand that
                          intrinsically there is neither
>quiescence nor disturbance, then you will be
                          able to exist of yourself.
>The one who is not drawn into quiescence and
                          disturbance is the man of
>spirit." Further: "If one is capable of not
                          seizing on interpretations, not
>creating the mind of delusion, and not
                          esteeming profound knowledge,
>then he will be a peaceful person. If there is
                          one dharma to be esteemed
>or valued, this dharma will be the one most
                          capable of binding and killing
>you, and you will fall into having mind. This
                          is an unreliable state of
>affairs.
>
>- Bodhidharma Antholgy, pg 35.
>
>
>

 

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