Yes it does. It includes it while exceeding it... Edgar
On Oct 11, 2012, at 10:55 PM, Kristopher Grey wrote: > > Clearly your grasp of Zen exceeds this. > > KG > > On 10/11/2012 9:27 AM, Edgar Owen wrote: >> >> Stream of consciousness is not Zen... >> >> >> Edgar >> >> >> >> On Oct 11, 2012, at 6:30 AM, Kristopher Grey wrote: >> >>> >>> >>> Not for me to say Mike. I mean nothing by it, it's just what came - and >>> went. >>> >>> A reflection that peace cannot be shattered, only our window on it, set in >>> its rigid frame. Some windows are clear, some painted over. It can be more >>> surprising when apparent clarity breaks (as we see the paint and only see >>> through the glass). >>> >>> KG >>> >>> On 10/11/2012 6:21 AM, mike brown wrote: >>>> >>>> Kris, >>>> >>>> Not completely sure what you mean in this post. I take it that you mean >>>> witnessing a murder is a powerful experience (It is/was). But whose >>>> attachment and to what? >>>> >>>> Mike >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Powerful experiences, powerful attachments. Shattering into pieces, >>>> revealing this was never lacking. >>>> >>>> KG >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> On 10/10/2012 6:17 PM, mike brown wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> From: Kristopher Grey <[email protected]> >>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 10 October 2012, 15:58 >>>>> >>>>> Compassion to me is when love meets suffering. Clearly an unrepentant >>>>> killer (as opposed to someone who has killed) fails the definition. >>>>> >>>>> The kind of peace a killer might find isn't the kind of peace I'm talking >>>>> about either, which is the peace born from being free from the 5 >>>>> Hindrances. This isn't an assumpmtion/projection, but is born from >>>>> experience (I'm ex-infantry and have seen murder committed not 10 feet >>>>> away from me). Even thoughts of >>>>> violence shatter this peace. >>>>> >>>>> Mike >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> To say a killer will never know peace? Part presumption, part projection. >>>>> Emanating from a kind heart perhaps, but compassion doesn't bother >>>>> with/isn't bothered by this. >>>>> >>>>> KG >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 10/10/2012 6:57 AM, mike brown wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Edgar, >>>>>> >>>>>> We're all going to die - it's how we live our life up to that point >>>>>> (there is no 'after' death, or indeed any such thing as 'death' to feel >>>>>> bad about being killed anyway). Yes, I'd rather be killed than be the >>>>>> killer. A killer will never know peace. >>>>>> >>>>>> >Get real! >>>>>> >>>>>> Keeping it real. >>>>>> >>>>>> Mike >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]> >>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 10 October 2012, 11:45 >>>>>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: I need some practice advice >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Mike, >>>>>> >>>>>> Total crap! >>>>>> >>>>>> OK, let's put it to the test. I'll send someone over to kill you and >>>>>> then I'll feel bad about it. >>>>>> >>>>>> Will you opt out because of your life or me feeling bad about it? >>>>>> >>>>>> Get real! >>>>>> >>>>>> Edgar >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> On Oct 10, 2012, at 5:34 AM, mike brown wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Edgar, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >It matters to the animals which is much more important ..... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I'm not so sure. I think it could be said that a person who causes >>>>>>> death, or injury, to another actually suffers more than the >>>>>>> person/animal harmed. But then again, I'm an old school First Noble >>>>>>> Truth kinda guy. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Mike >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> From: Edgar Owen <[email protected]> >>>>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>>>> Sent: Wednesday, 10 October 2012, 0:59 >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: I need some practice advice >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> KG, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> How egocentric! >>>>>>> >>>>>>> It matters to the animals which is much more important ..... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Edgar >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Oct 9, 2012, at 7:43 PM, Kristopher Grey wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> FWIW - 'I' am my "indoor pet" and, yes I am surgically sterilized. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What people do wth animals is of less concern than the shit they tell >>>>>>>> themselves to justify it. Until that's sorted out, the rest is an ego >>>>>>>> fest. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> KG >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On 10/9/2012 11:40 AM, Joe wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Edgar, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> My indoor pets are neutered. Aren't yours? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You may be an animal-breeder, then; a lucrative vocation/avocation. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> --Joe >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> PS You must be a vegetarian then if you are not a cannibal, or Zombie. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> PPS May I visit you in the stir for stepping on that ant? >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> > Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Joe and Merle, >>>>>>>>> > >>>>>>>>> > Any valid ethical principle must apply equally well to both humans >>>>>>>>> > and other species.... >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >> > > >
