Merle,

The mountain air.  The valley air.  The city air.

...Bill!

--- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote:
>
>  so zen... the mountain air?..merle
> 
> 
>   
> Joe,
> 
> No, I'd rather not spend my time researching WHY or HOW things happen.  I'd 
> rather spend my time DOING them.
> 
> ...Bill!
> 
> --- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@> wrote:
> >
> > Bill!,
> > 
> > Sleepy to take on the minute points.
> > 
> > My key enthusiasm in my reply to bring in hetu pratyaya, conditioned 
> > arising, alongside the theme of karma which you raised, and to mention the 
> > fact that karma and causes-and-conditions (another way of expressing hetu 
> > pratyaya), and the issues of both selflessness and impermanence are all 
> > tied together here in beautiful ways.
> > 
> > I don't wish to help deconstruct in typical post-modern fashion our helpful 
> > Buddhist philosophical themes by claiming that the observations in samsara 
> > which lead to their formation and definition  are "illusions": that's 
> > already BUILT-IN, Bill!.  See below.
> > 
> > If you do that, you MIX Yogacara and Madhyamika.  Each is better on its own.
> > 
> > Yogacara treats the world and life from the point of view of Illusion;
> > 
> > Madhyamika does it from the point of view of Enlightenment.
> > 
> > If a Madhyamika tears-up Yogacara concepts, well, it's just illiterate of 
> > him.
> > 
> > Well, these are PHILOSOPHICAL schools.  They relate to Zen practice and Zen 
> > teaching, but they may not be the most helpful areas where we can spend our 
> > time, unless we really want to.  Do you really want to?  If so, I suggest a 
> > review of the two aforementioned Philosophical schools in detail.  There's 
> > a lot there of value and beauty.  Maybe it's time.  "Zen" folks here will 
> > complain.  I suggest private study.  I'm good to discuss anytime a few 
> > points that come out of it.  These are big studies, helpful to some 
> > practitioners.  Not best in an informal forum, perhaps.
> > 
> > --Joe
> > 
> > > "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote:
> > >
> > > You've used it as an a priori assumption in your post below, and yes it 
> > > is accepted as such because of empirical observation.  Of course 
> > > empirical observation is a process of the dualistic, discriminating mind 
> > > and as such is illusory.  So...if you're making the statement below from 
> > > that perspective, then that's okay with me.
> > > 
> > > I just wanted to be sure you are basing this entire definition on 
> > > dualistic, mental models (aka illusions).
> >
>




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