Edgar, Evidently Merle's...Bill!
--- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > But whose mind is conjuring up thoughts of tantrums? > > Edgar > > > On Oct 21, 2012, at 7:45 PM, Bill! wrote: > > > Merle, > > > > No, that's not the truth. I understand why a little kid cries and throws > > his toys when he doesn't get his way. That doesn't mean I agree with his > > actions nor do I want to copy his actions. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >  that is the truth bill!!!!!! merle > > > > > > > > >  > > > Bill, > > > > > > If you really understood you would agree! > > > :-) > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 21, 2012, at 3:39 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > >  > > > >Merle, > > > > > > > >I understand Edgar most of the time and where he is coming from. I just > > > >don't agree. > > > > > > > >...Bill! > > > > > > > >--- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> àbill!..i can see where you are coming from and also where edgar > > > >> is coming from..so where am i coming from? > > > >> i can understand and relate to what you both are saying > > > >> > > > >> àgod father BILL!.. aldous huxley is a genius... > > > >> ànext you'll be telling me your bored with leonardo da vinci > > > >> àthe genius àare then not your cup of tea? > > > >> > > > >> àmaybe edgar is a genius? > > > >> àmerle > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> à> > > >> Merle, > > > >> > > > >> Edgar and I disagree on fundamental issues. In his post below I agree > > > >> only with the first paragraph. The rest of it, which basically says > > > >> some attachments are benign (actually, even necessary) and some > > > >> aren't, I disagree with. And his last sentence "Zen is not as simple > > > >> as many imagine!" is outright egregious. Zen is the most simple thing > > > >> you can imagine. IMO Edgar makes is complicated by trying to > > > >> UNDERSTAND and EXPLAIN it all the time. There is no need for, in fact > > > >> IMO there is a need NOT TO, try to understand zen. > > > >> > > > >> You don't understand zen, you practice zen. > > > >> > > > >> My reading of the ISLAND has bogged down midway in Chapter 4. It seems > > > >> very tedious and somewhat juvenile to me, but I'll keep going for at > > > >> least another couple chapters to see what might come next. > > > >> > > > >> ...Bill! > > > >> > > > >> --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Bill!..what is it that you and edgar disagree on?... is this just > > > >> > childish one up manship? > > > >> > Ãâàas we are all ONE > > > >> > Ãâàthen stands to reason..edgar and you are still on the same > > > >> > coin so to speak > > > >> > Ãâàhow is your island reading going ? > > > >> > Ãâàmerle > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > Ãâà> > > >> > Merle, > > > >> > > > > >> > I am 'listening' (reading actually), but there's nothing in this > > > >> > post for me to learn, nothing new anyway. I already am aware of how > > > >> > much Edgar and I disagree on zen - and I knew that already. > > > >> > > > > >> > ...Bill! > > > >> > > > > >> > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàyes bill!..edgar is back.. > > > >> > > edgar is on the cutting edge..are you listening?... and need i say > > > >> > > learning?..merle > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > >> > > Suresh, > > > >> > > > > > >> > > Attachment is a very valuable evolutionary survival mechanism. > > > >> > > It's a fundamental part of human nature similar to what we share > > > >> > > with other species. With no attachments individual humans would > > > >> > > have no motivation or direction and would not survive. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > The problem is not attachments per se. We all use attachments > > > >> > > every day to go about our lives successfully. That's what enables > > > >> > > people to sustain material success in life. The problem is > > > >> > > excessive attachment, or attachment to your attachments. The > > > >> > > problem is excessive attachments THAT DO NOT MESH WITH WHAT IS > > > >> > > REAL or attainable.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > >> > > > > > >> > > For example a man's attachment to THE IDEA OF an unattainable > > > >> > > woman, or an unattainable position in society. Attachment to the > > > >> > > unattainable causes suffering.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > >> > > > > > >> > > However attachment to the ATTAINABLE maintains physical and social > > > >> > > life.ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > >> > > > > > >> > > However things can change. When one loses something one was > > > >> > > attached to realization demands changing one's attachment to it to > > > >> > > mirror the new state of reality. > > > >> > > > > > >> > > Zen is not as simple as many imagine! > > > >> > > > > > >> > > Edgar > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > On Oct 20, 2012, at 1:38 AM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote: > > > >> > > > > > >> > > ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > >Bill > > > >> > > >Why do human liked to get attached? > > > >> > > >What is the root cause for attachment? > > > >> > > >Suresh > > > >> > > >On Oct 20, 2012 8:38 AM, "Merle Lester" <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (merlewiitpom@) > > > >> > > > Add cleanup rule | More info > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >>ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >>ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > >> > > >>ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàso how does one NOT be attached to these > > > >> > > >>emotions eh?..merle > > > >> > > >>ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > >> > > >>Merle, > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >>No, these in-and-of themselves are not attachments. They are > > > >> > > >>concepts (mental models), and in some case emotions - and it is > > > >> > > >>not these that cause suffering. It is ATTACHMENTS to these that > > > >> > > >>cause suffering. > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >>...Bill! > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >>--- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> > > > >> > > >>wrote: > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > > >>> ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâàthanks..are they > > > >> > > >>> attachments?... merle > > > >> > > >>> Merle, > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > > >>> Love is not exactly the OPPOSITE of hate, but love/hate is a > > > >> > > >>> dualistic pair - like good/bad, tall/short, hot/cold, > > > >> > > >>> yin/yang, etc... > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > > >>> ...Bill! > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > > >>> --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> > > > >> > > >>> wrote: > > > >> > > >>> > > > > >> > > >>> > > > > >> > > >>> > > > > >> > > >>> > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ > > > >> > > >>> > 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > >> > > >>> > tell me more BILLLL....... Love is it the opposite of > > > >> > > >>> > hate????? merle > > > >> > > >>> > ÃÆ'Ã'Ãâ > > > >> > > >>> > 'ÃÆ'ââââ¬Å¡Ã¬Ãâ¦Ã¡ÃÆ'Ã'âââ¬à ¡ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâà> > > >> > > >>> > > > > >> > > >>> > I agree with James. > > > >> > > >>> > > > > >> > > >>> > As with all emotions like fear, anger, love, hate it is not > > > >> > > >>> > the emotion that is the real problem, it is the ATTACHMENT > > > >> > > >>> > to the emotion. > > > >> > > >>> > > > > >> > > >>> > ...Bill! > > > >> > > >>> > > > > >> > > >>> > --- In [email protected], "James W. Meritt" > > > >> > > >>> > <JWMeritt@> wrote: > > > >> > > >>> > > > > > >> > > >>> > > > > > >> > > >>> > > Not so sure getting rid of fear is a good thing. I see > > > >> > > >>> > > having fear, but modifying how you use and react to it as > > > >> > > >>> > > a good thing. > > > >> > > >>> > > > > > >> > > >>> > > > > > >> > > >>> > > > > > >> > > >>> > > James W. Meritt > > > >> > > >>> > > CISSP, CISA, NSA IAM, PMP > > > >> > > >>> > > > > > >> > > >>> > > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
