But whose mind is conjuring up thoughts of tantrums? Edgar
On Oct 21, 2012, at 7:45 PM, Bill! wrote: > Merle, > > No, that's not the truth. I understand why a little kid cries and throws his > toys when he doesn't get his way. That doesn't mean I agree with his actions > nor do I want to copy his actions. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@...> wrote: > > > > > > > >  that is the truth bill!!!!!! merle > > > > > >  > > Bill, > > > > If you really understood you would agree! > > :-) > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > On Oct 21, 2012, at 3:39 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > >  > > >Merle, > > > > > >I understand Edgar most of the time and where he is coming from. I just > > >don't agree. > > > > > >...Bill! > > > > > >--- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>  bill!..i can see where you are coming from and also where edgar is > > >> coming from..so where am i coming from? > > >> i can understand and relate to what you both are saying > > >> > > >>  god father BILL!.. aldous huxley is a genius... > > >>  next you'll be telling me your bored with leonardo da vinci > > >>  the genius  are then not your cup of tea? > > >> > > >>  maybe edgar is a genius? > > >>  merle > > >> > > >> > > >>  > > >> Merle, > > >> > > >> Edgar and I disagree on fundamental issues. In his post below I agree > > >> only with the first paragraph. The rest of it, which basically says some > > >> attachments are benign (actually, even necessary) and some aren't, I > > >> disagree with. And his last sentence "Zen is not as simple as many > > >> imagine!" is outright egregious. Zen is the most simple thing you can > > >> imagine. IMO Edgar makes is complicated by trying to UNDERSTAND and > > >> EXPLAIN it all the time. There is no need for, in fact IMO there is a > > >> need NOT TO, try to understand zen. > > >> > > >> You don't understand zen, you practice zen. > > >> > > >> My reading of the ISLAND has bogged down midway in Chapter 4. It seems > > >> very tedious and somewhat juvenile to me, but I'll keep going for at > > >> least another couple chapters to see what might come next. > > >> > > >> ...Bill! > > >> > > >> --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > Bill!..what is it that you and edgar disagree on?... is this just > > >> > childish one up manship? > > >> >  as we are all ONE > > >> >  then stands to reason..edgar and you are still on the same > > >> > coin so to speak > > >> >  how is your island reading going ? > > >> >  merle > > >> > > > >> > > > >> >  > > >> > Merle, > > >> > > > >> > I am 'listening' (reading actually), but there's nothing in this post > > >> > for me to learn, nothing new anyway. I already am aware of how much > > >> > Edgar and I disagree on zen - and I knew that already. > > >> > > > >> > ...Bill! > > >> > > > >> > --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > ÃÆ'‚ yes bill!..edgar is back.. > > >> > > edgar is on the cutting edge..are you listening?... and need i say > > >> > > learning?..merle > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > ÃÆ'‚ > > >> > > Suresh, > > >> > > > > >> > > Attachment is a very valuable evolutionary survival mechanism. It's > > >> > > a fundamental part of human nature similar to what we share with > > >> > > other species. With no attachments individual humans would have no > > >> > > motivation or direction and would not survive. > > >> > > > > >> > > The problem is not attachments per se. We all use attachments every > > >> > > day to go about our lives successfully. That's what enables people > > >> > > to sustain material success in life. The problem is excessive > > >> > > attachment, or attachment to your attachments. The problem is > > >> > > excessive attachments THAT DO NOT MESH WITH WHAT IS REAL or > > >> > > attainable.ÃÆ'‚ > > >> > > > > >> > > For example a man's attachment to THE IDEA OF an unattainable woman, > > >> > > or an unattainable position in society. Attachment to the > > >> > > unattainable causes suffering.ÃÆ'‚ > > >> > > > > >> > > However attachment to the ATTAINABLE maintains physical and social > > >> > > life.ÃÆ'‚ > > >> > > > > >> > > However things can change. When one loses something one was attached > > >> > > to realization demands changing one's attachment to it to mirror the > > >> > > new state of reality. > > >> > > > > >> > > Zen is not as simple as many imagine! > > >> > > > > >> > > Edgar > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > On Oct 20, 2012, at 1:38 AM, SURESH JAGADEESAN wrote: > > >> > > > > >> > > ÃÆ'‚ > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > >Bill > > >> > > >Why do human liked to get attached? > > >> > > >What is the root cause for attachment? > > >> > > >Suresh > > >> > > >On Oct 20, 2012 8:38 AM, "Merle Lester" <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > >> > > > > > >> > > > This message is eligible for Automatic Cleanup! (merlewiitpom@) > > >> > > > Add cleanup rule | More info > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>ÃÆ'‚ > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>ÃÆ'‚ > > >> > > >>ÃÆ'‚ so how does one NOT be attached to these > > >> > > >>emotions eh?..merle > > >> > > >>ÃÆ'‚ > > >> > > >>Merle, > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>No, these in-and-of themselves are not attachments. They are > > >> > > >>concepts (mental models), and in some case emotions - and it is > > >> > > >>not these that cause suffering. It is ATTACHMENTS to these that > > >> > > >>cause suffering. > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>...Bill! > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >>--- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> > > >> > > >>wrote: > > >> > > >>> > > >> > > >>> > > >> > > >>> > > >> > > >>> ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ thanks..are they > > >> > > >>> attachments?... merle > > >> > > >>> Merle, > > >> > > >>> > > >> > > >>> > > >> > > >>> Love is not exactly the OPPOSITE of hate, but love/hate is a > > >> > > >>> dualistic pair - like good/bad, tall/short, hot/cold, yin/yang, > > >> > > >>> etc... > > >> > > >>> > > >> > > >>> ...Bill! > > >> > > >>> > > >> > > >>> --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> > > >> > > >>> wrote: > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ> > >> > > >>> > 'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ > > >> > > >>> > tell me more BILLLL....... Love is it the opposite of > > >> > > >>> > hate????? merle > > >> > > >>> > ÃÆ'Æ'Æ> > >> > > >>> > 'ÃÆ'¢â‚¬Å¡ÃÆ'Æ'‚ÃÆ'‚ > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > I agree with James. > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > As with all emotions like fear, anger, love, hate it is not > > >> > > >>> > the emotion that is the real problem, it is the ATTACHMENT to > > >> > > >>> > the emotion. > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > ...Bill! > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > --- In [email protected], "James W. Meritt" > > >> > > >>> > <JWMeritt@> wrote: > > >> > > >>> > > > > >> > > >>> > > > > >> > > >>> > > Not so sure getting rid of fear is a good thing. I see > > >> > > >>> > > having fear, but modifying how you use and react to it as a > > >> > > >>> > > good thing. > > >> > > >>> > > > > >> > > >>> > > > > >> > > >>> > > > > >> > > >>> > > James W. Meritt > > >> > > >>> > > CISSP, CISA, NSA IAM, PMP > > >> > > >>> > > > > >> > > >>> > > > >> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
