Chris, You've changed me! Or at least changed my mind - for whatever that's worth.
Seriously of course you're right, but that was part of my questioning in the first place. You're not going to change the circumstances like the weather, but you can change YOUR attitude towards that - and maybe by doing so can influence others. ...Bill! --- In [email protected], Chris Austin-Lane <chris@...> wrote: > > Bless you too. who else could I change? > On Oct 31, 2012 6:43 PM, "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> wrote: > > > Chris, > > > > Okay. I can buy that. Maybe it's like saying the Bodhisattva vows out > > loud. Actually as I'm typing that does make more sense now because if you > > say it out loud it becomes sound - an experience and therefore something > > real - a not just a thought. > > > > So, thanks to your wisdom below, I'd say prayer might indeed help you as > > long as you say it out loud and of course are doing so to initiate change > > in yourself. > > > > Thanks! ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], ChrisAustinLane <chris@> wrote: > > > > > > Sometimes I can increase my clarity regarding some thought or other by > > saying it aloud, and listening to my sounds. > > > > > > Thanks, > > > Chris Austin-Lane > > > Sent from a cell phone > > > > > > On Oct 31, 2012, at 17:35, "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > > Chris, > > > > > > > > You're correct on the 'sacred' stuff. Stuff's stuff. > > > > > > > > You say "...asking for something specific is not the major sort - > > asking to be a more helpful or courageous friend is just as useful." > > > > > > > > Ask whom? Yourself? If so, why ask? Why not just be? > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Chris Austin-Lane <chris@> wrote: > > > >> > > > >> When nothing is sacred, then everything is sacred > > > >> > > > >> Also, praying for others is like donating ten bucks to a campaign - it > > > >> allows you to be ready for more substantive action later and allows > > you to > > > >> tell people you prayed for.X. > > > >> > > > >> There are many sorts of prayer, asking for something specific is not > > the > > > >> major sort - asking to be a more helpful or courageous friend is just > > as > > > >> useful > > > >> On Oct 31, 2012 1:01 AM, "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > >> > > > >>> Merle, > > > >>> > > > >>> My responses are as usual embedded in your post below: > > > >>> > > > >>> --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> > > wrote: > > > >>> > > > >>>> Ãâ billlllllllllll...you sound like you do not like edgar? > > > >>> > > > >>> What I've said reveals nothing about my feelings for Edgar. > > > >>> > > > >>>> Ãâ why not pray? > > > >>> > > > >>> It's a useless activity, except perhaps to either make the one who's > > > >>> praying feel better. > > > >>> > > > >>>> Ãâ what does pray mean to you? > > > >>> > > > >>> 'Pray' to me means to ask for something from someone who you think > > can > > > >>> give whatever you're asking for. > > > >>> > > > >>>> what do you mean to whom? > > > >>> > > > >>> I mean 'to whom would you pray'? To God? To Jehovah? To Allah? To > > > >>> Vishnu? To Buddha? To Edgar? To Sally? To FEMA? To whom? > > > >>> > > > >>>> Ãâ pray is pray is pray > > > >>> > > > >>> I can't argue with that. > > > >>> > > > >>>> sacred > > > >>> > > > >>> What do you mean 'sacred'? There is nothing that's 'sacred'. > > There's > > > >>> Just THIS! > > > >>> > > > >>>> i careÃâ > > > >>> > > > >>> Okay. I care too. > > > >>> > > > >>>> Ãâ i pray > > > >>> > > > >>> I don't. > > > >>> > > > >>>> Ãâ that is that and again i ask why not? > > > >>> > > > >>> I don't pray. I don't do a lot of things. Like, I also don't cut > > the > > > >>> heads off of chickens, smear my body with their blood, drink some > > > >>> intoxicant, stick pins in a doll and dance until I pass out hoping > > that > > > >>> will bring about something I want. > > > >>> > > > >>>> compassion Ãâ universal love and understanding is that not pray? > > > >>> > > > >>> No Merle, compassion and universal love and understanding is not > > prayer. > > > >>> At least I don't equate these. > > > >>> > > > >>> And one last thing...if you're going to pray, why just pray for > > Edgar? Or > > > >>> for all those on the East Coast of the USA? Or for all those in > > danger? > > > >>> Why not just pray for EVERYBODY, EVERYWHERE? Including yourself? > > > >>> > > > >>> How about something like the first line of the 4 Bodhisattva vows: > > > >>> > > > >>> Sentient beings are numberless, I vow to save them [all] - not just > > > >>> Edgar... > > > >>> > > > >>> Now THAT'S compassion and universal love - but I'm not sure about > > > >>> universal understanding. That's out of my scope. > > > >>> > > > >>> ...Bill! > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>>> merle > > > >>>> Ãâ > > > >>>> Merle, > > > >>>> > > > >>>> Why pray for Edgar? And to whom? > > > >>>> > > > >>>> ...Bill! > > > >>>> > > > >>>> --- In [email protected], Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> > > wrote: > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâ we must pray for edgar... > > > >>>>> ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâ merle > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâ > > > >>>>>> ... wind-damage. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> From Hurricane Sandy or Edgar? ; ) > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> Ps You know we love you, Edgar! > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> ________________________________ > > > >>>>> From: Joe <desert_woodworker@> > > > >>>>> To: [email protected] > > > >>>>> Sent: Tuesday, 30 October 2012, 22:07 > > > >>>>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Edgar! Watch Out!!! > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> ÃÆ'ââ¬Å¡Ãâ > > > >>>>> Edgar, > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> You LOOK ok. Is that YOU, wading ashore? Good. I feel that all > > is > > > >>> right with the Whirled, then. Now. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> --Joe > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> PS Group: Unless he has a gasoline powered generator, he may be > > off > > > >>> line for a bit. And the Internet providers there will have their > > problems, > > > >>> too, for a few days, as may the phone companies, if Edgar has DSL. > > But, > > > >>> hopes that our co-Moderator is safe!, and that his antiquities > > collection > > > >>> did not experience flooding nor wind-damage. I could have warned > > about > > > >>> this a week ago when Edgar avowed that it was not cloudy in New > > Jersey: > > > >>> We're clear-eyed in the Desert... when sand does not make us blink. > > We did > > > >>> not blink. Be safe, stay safe. > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>>> Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > >>>>>> > > > >>>>>> are you ok edgar?..merle > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> > > > >>> ------------------------------------ > > > >>> > > > >>> Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or > > are > > > >>> reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or > > are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are > > reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! 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