Edgar, In direct response to your points below I can offer comments embedded below...
--- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > Each of the 4 sentences is wrong. > > Sentient beings are NOT numberless. There are no physical >infinities. This assumes 'sentient beings' refers to physical beings. I believe the term refers to dualistic illusions of 'other' beings. > Desires ARE exhaustible. That's their nature... This does not refer to each single desire. This refers to the continual arising of desires (attachments). > The dharmas are NOT boundless. There are not multiple dharmas, there >is only > one dharma. I don't know why this term is plural here, but it is. Maybe it was just translated as such because the preceding two vows referred to plurals and ended in '...them.' It might have been down just to preserve that form as in a poetic sense instead of a logical sense. If you'd prefer you could translate is as 'The dharma is boundless, I vow to master it" > "The Buddha Way is unsurpassable" is an oxymoron since it's all that exists > and all sentient beings are already on it. I think you'll find that 'unsurpassable' just means the 'highest' or the 'best' or 'ultimate' or 'supreme'. The vow is to 'attain' it, or to reach that highest level. I guess you could say all sentient beings are already on that path (way) and certainly have the potential to 'attain' the highest level. That doesn't however mean all sentient beings already have attained that level. Again I say this is Buddhist dogma so I can't defend it entirely, but these are my thoughts on how I apply the vows to my zen practice. ...Bill! > Edgar > > > > > On Nov 16, 2012, at 2:26 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > Joe, The version of the four Bodhisattva vows I learned and still recite > > today at the end of every session of zazen is: > > > > "Sentient beings are numberless; I vow to save them. > > Desires are inexhaustible; I vow to put an end to them. > > The dharmas are boundless; I vow to master them. > > The Buddha Way is unsurpassable; I vow to attain it." > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@> wrote: > > > > > > Chris, > > > > > > Well-considered!; and well appreciated, here. > > > > > > Thank you for the very clear first-person accounts, with those concrete > > > examples. I think your report will make for a rich conversation, here. > > > > > > You know what you're doing, I know, and it all sounds good. > > > > > > I'll mention, though -- for *others* who are reading over our shoulders > > > -- that ONE of the strategies used by the automaton-beings for their > > > continuance is to cut themselves the slack they need to survive and to > > > continue. Their continuance can result in an energy-draw upon us, and a > > > screening of our original nature, due to the distraction of the > > > automaton-beings's seeming reality. > > > > > > But all practitioners know this. And those who have an issue with the > > > Great Vows (not you, Chris) have an issue with Shakyamuni Buddha, et al., > > > and not with me. ;-) > > > > > > I'll mention, too, that other translations of "...I vow to abandon them", > > > which I have heard are, "I vow to put an end to them", and "I vow to cut > > > them off" (like cutting them off at the Pass, I visualize, not > > > amputate!), plus "I vow to penetrate and cut through them all", and "I > > > vow to extinguish them". > > > > > > I still like "I vow to abandon them", MOST of all!, because to me it > > > conveys the ease of simply DROPPING, expending no effort and adding no > > > life to the affliction by contending and wrestling with it. I do not > > > fight with it like a Crocodile ...just as I do not fight with Edgar, > > > here, for the same reason(s). > > > > > > The "simply dropping" is what I find myself doing in shikantaza, and in > > > daily life, anyway, so it truly, truly resonates with me. > > > > > > If I were to write my own vow, I might say, "Vexations rise endlessly, I > > > vow to let them drop." > > > > > > Thanks for the view of the Dog Star! > > > > > > --Joe > > > > > > > Chris Austin-Lane <chris@> wrote: > > > > > > > > II do not believe the automaton. When I catch myself starting to believe > > > > the contents of my thoughts, a few deep breaths usually can restore my > > > > perspective. [snip] > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
