Joe, Thanks for at least answering our questions. Now, that wasn't so hard, was it?
As for calling me a "free rider", it wasn't just me. No one paid anything. I guess that's a difference between real Japanese Zen and American commercial zen. Edgar On Nov 21, 2012, at 12:22 PM, Joe wrote: > Bill!, Edgar, and All, > > Yeah, I don't fathom Edgar's money-fixation in this venue, but I'll note that > retreats and sesshin do cost money at the two different centers where I was > most associated. At one of them, I was on the Board for many years, and > served too as President for some time. We were responsible for setting rates > for sesshin and zazenkai. We extended a "scholarship" to all who could not > pay any or all of the retreat cost. The costs were extremely low, and covered > food costs and the stipend that we paid to our Roshi. This was an entirely > democratic sangha, in which the sangha ran things, not the teacher. A good > model, perhaps, for non-monastic Zen centers in the West. This was the zen > center in Tucson, an affiliate of Robert Aitken Roshi's "Diamond Sangha". > We'll roll with the times and see how it shakes down over time as the > centuries progress. I resigned from there after 25 years to form a Ch'an > group, but still have an ear out for their occasional news. > > At Sheng Yen's place(s), he and his Monks and Nuns ran operations and set > fees, as is proper in a monastic place. There were extremely cheap costs for > 7-day and 3-day Ch'an Retreat, and even when I was an underpaid scientist who > American Express refused to issue a card to, 7-day Ch'an retreats cost very > little and I easily paid, gladly. Getting time off from work was more > difficult, but I sat many retreats with Sheng Yen during 35 years. Anyone who > could not pay was always welcome anyway. I always managed to pay, but I knew > some who could not. Many people practiced Dana in addition, to support the > daily operations of the Ch'an Center. Rent in NYC was expensive, and then so > was the mortgage when we bought the building, until it was all paid down. At > least there was no real estate tax to pay, because the outfit is a IRS > 501-C-3 Religious Educational Organization. Yes, Zen (Ch'an) is a Religion. > > I find, in general, that if we want to establish safe and encouraging > practice places in America (or, fill in your address...) where people can > awaken, we must build them, and must pay for them in order to build them, and > maintain them. That's what we're doing, and that's what we've done. The > results have been monotonically encouraging. I hope that's been everybody's > experience who has done this work. Free-riders like Edgar are welcome if they > are serious about practice. I've only seen one person sent home, but she was > a newcomer and a severe mental-case, off her meds. We handled it very > smoothly, and, as Roshi's Jisha it was mostly my responsibility to get her > home safely and with the least disruption to the sesshin. Mission > accomplished. But of course much more "remarkable" things happen on sesshin, > daily, and I will not speak of them. ;-) > > --Joe > > > "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> wrote: > > > > Edgar and Joe, > > > > I don't know how it is now, but back in the 'good old days' (which in my > > case is the 1960's) zen centers operated on a pretty sparse budget. [snip] > >
