Bill, The world of forms is already AT your door. Everything you experience is some aspect of the world of forms. That's what experience is, the world of forms.
It is impossible to directly experience the formless because it has no characteristics whatsoever. In zazen one only experiences the RELATIVELY formless with fewer forms arising. It's an illusion to claim that's absolute formlessness. It's a Zen cliche which simply isn't true. Formlessness = NO EXPERIENCE AT ALL. This is the state of nonexistence before birth or after death... Buddha Nature manifests ONLY through forms... Formlessness manifests ONLY through forms.... Edgar On Nov 30, 2012, at 9:07 AM, Bill! wrote: > Edgar, > > When it arrives at my door and I can see, hear, feel, taste and/or smell it I > will believe! > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > > > Bill, > > > > I know you think the world of forms is illusion but when it arrives at your > > door that will change fast! > > :-) > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > On Nov 30, 2012, at 4:14 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > Edgar and RAF, > > > > > > Why are you concerned with Hindu Cycles? Don't we have to get through the > > > Aztec Calendar thingy first? > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > >> > > >> Joe, > > >> > > >> I'm pretty sure, but will let RAF speak for himself if he likes, that > > >> his use of the term for the last of the 4 Hindu cycles was a simply a > > >> metaphor for the approaching global catastrophe both he and I see > > >> approaching rather than any indication he believes in any of the details > > >> of Hindu mythology. > > >> > > >> > > >> Edgar > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On Nov 29, 2012, at 2:39 PM, Joe wrote: > > >> > > >>> RAF, > > >>> > > >>> A three-sigma signal? Or just a bump somewhere. > > >>> > > >>> Wait for five-sigma? > > >>> > > >>> Still, data requires a proper interpretation and interpreter if one > > >>> wants to project reliably. I *understand* your view is Indio-syncratic. > > >>> It doesn't mean we can't learn from it. > > >>> > > >>> But it's *I* who am now Mister Dubious. > > >>> > > >>> What goes around comes around. > > >>> > > >>> Yes, it is discharged; and much obliged. > > >>> > > >>> I put no stock in prophecy. Projecting from trends, *maybe*. But not > > >>> prophecy. > > >>> > > >>> Those Indians could know nothing about global warming, fresh-water > > >>> shortages, raging population growth, sea-level rise, massive and > > >>> escalating species extinctions, etc., and the commercialization of > > >>> Society, where it had once been only the commercialization of the > > >>> Economy. > > >>> > > >>> But, "If it's not one thing, it's Another" (another folk-wisdom gem). > > >>> People think they're good at seeing trends and patterns, and the > > >>> gullible among them say it's been prophesied. You're not one of Those, > > >>> I gather. Come clean. Tell us Lassie's safe (oops, she passed). > > >>> > > >>> --Joe > > >>> > > >>>> R A Fonda <rafonda@> wrote: > > >>> > > >>>>> Pls. let us know; the suspense is killing us. > > >>>> > > >>>> I have overlooked your sarcasm and given you an honest answer to a > > >>>> snide question; my obligation is discharged. > > >>>> > > >>>> RAF > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > > > > > > > > >
