Edgar,

You are confusing the terms 'experience' with 'perception'.  Look them up.

...Bill!

--- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote:
>
> Bill,
> 
> The world of forms is already AT your door. Everything you experience is some 
> aspect of the world of forms. That's what experience is, the world of forms. 
> 
> It is impossible to directly experience the formless because it has no 
> characteristics whatsoever. In zazen one only experiences the RELATIVELY 
> formless with fewer forms arising. It's an illusion to claim that's absolute 
> formlessness. It's a Zen cliche which simply isn't true.
> 
> Formlessness = NO EXPERIENCE AT ALL.
> 
> This is the state of nonexistence before birth or after death...
> 
> Buddha Nature manifests ONLY through forms... Formlessness manifests ONLY 
> through forms....
> 
> Edgar
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On Nov 30, 2012, at 9:07 AM, Bill! wrote:
> 
> > Edgar,
> > 
> > When it arrives at my door and I can see, hear, feel, taste and/or smell it 
> > I will believe!
> > 
> > ...Bill!
> > 
> > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote:
> > >
> > > Bill,
> > > 
> > > I know you think the world of forms is illusion but when it arrives at 
> > > your door that will change fast!
> > > :-)
> > > 
> > > Edgar
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Nov 30, 2012, at 4:14 AM, Bill! wrote:
> > > 
> > > > Edgar and RAF,
> > > > 
> > > > Why are you concerned with Hindu Cycles? Don't we have to get through 
> > > > the Aztec Calendar thingy first?
> > > > 
> > > > ...Bill!
> > > > 
> > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote:
> > > >> 
> > > >> Joe,
> > > >> 
> > > >> I'm pretty sure, but will let RAF speak for himself if he likes, that 
> > > >> his use of the term for the last of the 4 Hindu cycles was a simply a 
> > > >> metaphor for the approaching global catastrophe both he and I see 
> > > >> approaching rather than any indication he believes in any of the 
> > > >> details of Hindu mythology.
> > > >> 
> > > >> 
> > > >> Edgar
> > > >> 
> > > >> 
> > > >> 
> > > >> On Nov 29, 2012, at 2:39 PM, Joe wrote:
> > > >> 
> > > >>> RAF,
> > > >>> 
> > > >>> A three-sigma signal? Or just a bump somewhere.
> > > >>> 
> > > >>> Wait for five-sigma?
> > > >>> 
> > > >>> Still, data requires a proper interpretation and interpreter if one 
> > > >>> wants to project reliably. I *understand* your view is 
> > > >>> Indio-syncratic. It doesn't mean we can't learn from it.
> > > >>> 
> > > >>> But it's *I* who am now Mister Dubious.
> > > >>> 
> > > >>> What goes around comes around.
> > > >>> 
> > > >>> Yes, it is discharged; and much obliged.
> > > >>> 
> > > >>> I put no stock in prophecy. Projecting from trends, *maybe*. But not 
> > > >>> prophecy.
> > > >>> 
> > > >>> Those Indians could know nothing about global warming, fresh-water 
> > > >>> shortages, raging population growth, sea-level rise, massive and 
> > > >>> escalating species extinctions, etc., and the commercialization of 
> > > >>> Society, where it had once been only the commercialization of the 
> > > >>> Economy.
> > > >>> 
> > > >>> But, "If it's not one thing, it's Another" (another folk-wisdom gem). 
> > > >>> People think they're good at seeing trends and patterns, and the 
> > > >>> gullible among them say it's been prophesied. You're not one of 
> > > >>> Those, I gather. Come clean. Tell us Lassie's safe (oops, she passed).
> > > >>> 
> > > >>> --Joe
> > > >>> 
> > > >>>> R A Fonda <rafonda@> wrote:
> > > >>> 
> > > >>>>> Pls. let us know; the suspense is killing us.
> > > >>>> 
> > > >>>> I have overlooked your sarcasm and given you an honest answer to a 
> > > >>>> snide question; my obligation is discharged.
> > > >>>> 
> > > >>>> RAF
> > > >>> 
> > > >>> 
> > > >> 
> > > > 
> > > >
> > >
> > 
> >
>




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