Thanks, Chris Austin-Lane Sent from a cell phone
On Dec 15, 2012, at 14:33, "Joe" <[email protected]> wrote: > Chris, > > Thanks very much for your perspectives. > > One thing jumps out for me to be clear about: > > Joe wrote: >>> But can we also worship with them? I'd say "Yes". I think that ritual >> and group practice of this kind and other kinds (simple Assembly, or >> Meeting, as in Quaker practice, or Zazen as in Zen circles) graciously >> makes visible the invisible, which must always remain *invisible* (the >> Absolute). > >> Chris Austin-Lane <chris@...> wrote: >> >> Them/us? > > Yes, Chris, I'm taking it all the way back to the beginning there, at the > end. The "them/us" is (1.) the community of those who take the revealed > tradition as actually and really true, and (2.) those who take it all, or > mostly, as metaphor. It in my experience is an error to treat what people tell you as their beliefs as some static thing about them. The question is beyond belief vs metaphor, the question is right now can I let go of my self and accept grace. Even with people with very conservative sounding beliefs, the person is not their self idea (whether they say this or not) and every person takes action in the moment; that moment is the crux of the matter. And sometimes a person expressing more open belief systems is none the less not that open to other people As I said there is more diversity of actual belief, varying by person but also by time, situation, and circumstance, among my church that I know about than on the internets. Dividing people into believing this or that is only provisionally useful and usually less useful than establishing and sticking to a kind perspective that seeks not to divide or judge. > I claim we CAN practice togetherPerhap, and can worship together. Even > though we "share" (!) different theology, don't share BELIEF (in a personal > God), and don't share a FAITH (in a personal Savior). Big step! I don't > know if you agree. But for all the reasons in my previous post, I make the > jump to claim we can, or that I can. > > --Joe > > PS I would not be surprised to hear that certain clergy take the whole ball > of wax as metaphor, even Roman Catholic priests. They may behave > "officially" in ways that aren't true to their metaphoric understanding, > however, and we might not get to know their personal appreciations unless we > get to know them well. > > > > ------------------------------------ > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are > reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
