Iain, In Taoist cosmology, I only care to go back as far as the One.
Old Lao himself warns us NOT to speak of the "Tao". So I won't. Speaking of the Tao reveals an embarrassing fact about the speaker. ;-) (he tells that those who speak of it, themselves don't know it from Shine-ola). You may be right that there is a difference between no-mind and the experience of no-mind. But I don't think you can prove it (i.e., I don't think the difference can be shown). To me it seems a metaphysical statement, ...the kind of thing about which the Buddha maintained a Noble Silence. (as toward the famous Fourteen Questions the Buddha refused to answer, "the" so-called Avyakrita). These are/were things that the Buddha said, "Do not conduce toward Enlightenment". Maybe so... but here, anything goes. ;-) Best, --Joe > "iain" wrote: > > Hi Joe, thanks for the reply, I've made a few comments below. > > --- In [email protected], "Joe" wrote: > > > > As Buddhists, where no God is postulated, we nonetheless speak of the > > Absolute and the Relative; or, as these ideas from Taoism are called, the > > One, and the 10000 Things. > > > > I thought the absolute in Taoism would be the eternal Tao not the one. > > First there was the eternal Tao > from the Tao came the one > from the one came the two > from the two came the three > from the three came the ten thousand other things. > > Isn't the one, two and the three, the observer, the act of observation and > the object observed and from this comes the ten thousand things. Isn't the > one the first act of seperation from the Tao? > > > --- In [email protected], "Joe" wrote: > > > In Zen practice, we can awaken, and indeed experience and live from > > Emptiness, which may otherwise be called no-mind. That is rather a boring > > state, although it is wonderful. Some prefer the busy, active, > > manufactured, illusory mind, full of illusions and playful things, and a > > "self", all of which are, however, also painful, due to Impermanence and > > Dukha. > > > > Yes, but the rub is, is that the experiencer, the experience and the act of > experiencing are merged in the full state of no-mind and this state cannot be > experienced, the experience comes when you have actually seperated from > no-mind.It cannot be boring or wonderful, this is simply a judgement of the > state of no-mind in retrospect once one has seperated from the non experience > of no-mind. There is a difference between no-mind and the experience of > no-mind. > > Iain. ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
