Joe,

You speak the truth about the way I discovered/uncovered Just THIS!  But my 
reference in this thread was to the ESSENCE of zen, not the various routes you 
can or should try taking to discover/uncover the essence.

As I am sure you know zen literature sometimes refers to what I call 'fluff' as 
the 'finger pointing to the moon', or 'the boat which takes you to the other 
shore'.  In my experience, and I see it all the time on this Forum, one of the 
biggest difficulties people have with zen practice is getting mesmerized by the 
finger or too comfortably settled-in to a perpetual boat cruise.

Some people need love.  Some need tough-love.  You can give them the former and 
I will give them the latter.

Po-tay-to, po-tah-to.

...Bill! 

--- In [email protected], "Joe" <desert_woodworker@...> wrote:
>
> Bill!,
> 
> Ha!  I criticize your statement here.
> 
> The fellow gets deep down into the basement, and sees the treasures in the 
> wine cellar, then says that the stairway that led him down there and bore all 
> his weight, step by step, safely!, and then removed all his weight, is 
> "fluff", extraneous, and non-essential.  It may not be of the essence you 
> speak of, but it was essential for YOU!
> 
> Another baby with the bathwater guy, in that view.
> 
> There you have my criticism.
> 
> You know I respect you and your experience and practice.  But I don't like to 
> see you stray, either, and mis-lead, either, nor do I like to see you or 
> anyone mis-represent the richness and functionality of the panoply of tools 
> of awakening.
> 
> Folks don't need -- and can't use -- teachings about "THIS!".  And you cannot 
> give any such teachings.
> 
> They'll discover "THIS!" on their own, and must discover it or never actually 
> encounter it by any mitigated means.  What they need is a stairway to the 
> basement.  Take that away from YOURSELF at a certain point, surely, but don't 
> "dis" it, at least not publicly.  Impressionable people may be on board.
> 
> --Joe
> 
> > "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote:
> >
> > Zendervish,
> > 
> > In that statement I made I use 'essence' to mean the core teaching and 
> > practice of zen.  I sometimes call all the rest of it 'fluff', which just 
> > means extraneous and non-essential.
> > 
> > Buddhism is a good example of very complex 'fluff'.  So are all zen 
> > teaching techniques like zazen, koan study, kinhin, bowing, chanting, samu, 
> > etc...
> > 
> > Like actual 'fluff', some of these are comforting and even useful to shield 
> > yourself from the bumps and grinds of reality, but none of it is essential.
> > 
> > The only essential is Just THIS!
>




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