Bill!, Yes, there's nothing mysterious about it at all. All the Dharma is is living in accord with the universe/nature and the lessons are found within.
Mike --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@...> wrote: > > Mike, > > I like your explanation of Buddha's teachings in your second paragraph below > very much. > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], "mike" <uerusuboyo@> wrote: > > > > Bill!, > > > > I kind of hear what you're saying, but you're argument about people being > > so literal is like saying people will exploit unemployment benefit, so it' > > must be a bad thing. I don't think the 5 precepts, for example, are so > > arbitrary either. Remember, they were first mentioned 2,500 years ago and > > none have been taken away and none added (for lay people). Surely you have > > to give respect, no matter how grudgingly, to such longevity and efficacy. > > Same with the 5 Hindrances. You might not like that 'hindrances' gets a > > capital 'H', but if you take a look at them - and not just automatically > > dismiss them - you'll see they make a lot of practical sense (in relation > > to meditation). > > > > The original teaching of Buddha is as far from religion as you can get. > > Basically he's saying that reality can be found in our body/mind. It's > > always there - our very own laboratory. He discourages the metaphysical; > > mantras; creeds; beliefs; other people's insights etc. His Dharma is > > rational (it's not always a dirty word) and can easily be experienced if we > > practice sincerely and diligently. Yes, a Buddha doesn't need a list to > > follow like Chairman Mao's little red book, but not many of us our born as > > realised Buddhas. > > > > Mike > > > > --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > Mike, > > > > > > Okay, maybe 'mumbo-jumbo' is not the right word. Both of these concepts > > > to mean something. > > > > > > What bothers me about things like this is the enumeration. I think a lot > > > of people take them too literally. Like believe there are really 5 > > > specific precepts, no more no less. The same with the Eightfold Path. > > > Or the 10 Commandments. These types of things are for people who can't > > > or don't want to take responsibility for their own lives. They feel > > > safer depending on someone else's list of Do's and Don't. > > > > > > Whenever I think of these I always imagine someone carrying around a > > > little plastic card in their shirt pocket with the 5 Precepts, and every > > > time they need to make a decision about something they have to pull the > > > card out and check themselves against The List. > > > > > > This is the stuff of religion. Religions create dogma and tell people > > > they have to memorize and follow it so they can...whatever - go to > > > heaven, become enlightened, be re-born into a better life, etc... It's > > > all crap to me. > > > > > > Zen doesn't just give people lists of things they should or should not > > > do, or should or should not think about. Zen leads you to experience > > > Buddha Nature and then you don't have to worry about any lists like these > > > anymore. They're all somebody else's lists anyway. Maybe after > > > realizing Buddha Nature you'll make your own list, but probably you won't > > > need a list at all. > > > > > > It's like Jesus said when asked about all the traditional Jewish laws. > > > He basically just said 'you don't need to know all those laws, you just > > > need to love one another'. > > > > > > You don't need any lists, just compassion. And in fact if you don't have > > > compassion even following the lists aren't going to help you anyway. > > > > > > That's my take on it anyway... > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "mike" <uerusuboyo@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Bill!, > > > > > > > > I'm still confused as to why you would consider these terms mumbo > > > > jumbo. For example, 'The 5 Precepts' pin-point the problems we face > > > > when we sit own to meditate. Take any one of the precepts (not to harm > > > > any living thing; steal; sexual misconduct; lie; intoxication). They're > > > > not commands like in Christianity, but they help facilitate meditation > > > > because a vow keeps us mindful of not breaking them. It's not the > > > > obviousness of breaking them that helps meditation, but the vow not to > > > > that helps. > > > > > > > > The Noble Eightfold Path is another useful tool for those of us on the > > > > path. They can be seen as an explanation of the path towards cessation > > > > of suffering, as a guideline, and as a description of the behaviour of > > > > a Buddha. It's broken down to morality, meditation and wisdom and how > > > > to 'achieve' them. It can be seen that morality leads to successful > > > > meditation and meditation leads to wisdom (insight into impermanence, > > > > no-self and the unsatisfactoriness of believing in both). Criticising > > > > them as mumbo jumbo to me seems no different than to criciicise any > > > > classification as the same. They might not be ultimate truth, but > > > > they're invaluable as a guide and explanation of the Dharma. > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], "Bill!" <BillSmart@> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > You're right; or at least what I meant by "mumbo-jumbo" is indeed > > > > > Buddhist dogma. Things like 'The Five Precepts' and 'The Noble > > > > > Eightfold Path'. > > > > > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > > > > > --- In [email protected], uerusuboyo@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Bill!,<br/><br/>I'm not sure why you always flog this horse about > > > > > > Buddhism being "Mumbo jumbo". The way of Vipassana is as clear and > > > > > > concise as any manual on making a pizza. Take a look at the > > > > > > Dhammapada - where's the mumbo jumbo in that? It's instructions and > > > > > > teachings are perfectly clear (putting them into practice is > > > > > > another thing). I think you confuse the rituals and prayers to > > > > > > Buddha by later followers with the actual teachings of Buddha. I > > > > > > will say, I don't like the word 'Buddhism' as it implies a series > > > > > > of beliefs. I practice Buddha Dharma, or simply the Dharma, is much > > > > > > more accurate to my mind and is all that Vipassana > > > > > > is.<br/><br/>Mike<br/><br/><br/>Sent from Yahoo! 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