Mike, Your comments appear to come from a mindset that thinks of meditation as an unpleasant detailed chore you have to undergo to achieve something you desire....
But if your meditation is an unpleasant chore it's not been done correctly. Follow your Buddha and forget the rest! Edgar On Apr 6, 2013, at 12:58 PM, [email protected] wrote: > William, > > What difference does it make? Well, the alternative then could be its no > problem if you scratch your arse and pick your nose while sitting zazen. Then > again, why sit zazen? How about sitting with your back against the wall or > bringing your favourite bean bag to sit on. Come to think about it even > further, why even bother going to the Zen centre at the designated time. And > no, I'm not being facetious here. > > Mike > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPhone > > From: William Rintala <[email protected]>; > To: <[email protected]>; > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: standing zen meditation > Sent: Sat, Apr 6, 2013 2:51:33 PM > > > > Bill: > > I have to side with Edgar here. What real difference does it make how you > hold your hands? I have seen numerous positions and the only useful > explanation given was that a difficult hand position kept the individual from > falling asleep. > > > > > > > > > > From: Bill! <[email protected]> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Fri, April 5, 2013 8:02:53 PM > Subject: [Zen] Re: standing zen meditation > > > Edgar, > > I again agree with your post below, but offer an alternate interpretation to > the last phrase of your last line..., "...not getting mired in interminable > details." > > Many of the teachings, dogmas and rituals of Zen Buddhism, Buddhism and > religions in general are taught to do precisely that - keep the student from > getting 'mired down details'. > > In this example if you are told how to hold your hands and then practice that > you don't have to worry about your hands anymore. You are free to do whatever > else it is that the religion wants you to do. It's the same in any activity > like praying, bowing, and even sports. If you learn the basics by rote you > can then practice them without having to think anymore about them anymore. > > Just a thought on this... > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > > > Joe, > > > > Again all these details only distract from the real point. Buddha is > > Buddha, no matter what his posture, whether his hands are closed or open, > > his eyes open, closed or half closed. > > > > Zen is realizing your inner Buddha, not getting mired in interminable > > details... > > > > You'll never realize Buddha if you are always checking your hands, your > > posture and whatever... > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > On Apr 5, 2013, at 12:00 PM, Joe wrote: > > > > > Merle, > > > > > > Your teacher may tell you differently. > > > > > > I learned to place the RIGHT hand in a loose "fist", and hold it at about > > > the navel. Then to cover the right fist with the LEFT hand. With the left > > > thumb on top of the right fist. And just keep the shoulders and arms > > > relaxed while standing or walking this way. > > > > > > It's a natural and relaxed "closed" position, rather than letting the > > > arms dangle openly at the sides. > > > > > > This is also called "kinhin mudra", or Shashu. It's used when doing > > > walking meditation, "kinhin". It's also used when standing; and, when > > > standing and listening to the Dharma, as when the teacher is speaking and > > > we are on our feet. > > > > > > When walking about the zendo, or outside it, people often walk using > > > Shashu hand position, too, and never swing the arms at the sides. This is > > > not a rule, it's a Practice. It helps us to keep in mind that we are > > > there to PRACTICE, ...not to walk around. > > > > > > We have a lot of practical reminders of what we're doing there, what > > > we're there for. This is one of them. It sets an "atmosphere", too, about > > > the place, an attitude of protecting our place of practice, so we can all > > > practice without disruption, and come to awakening. > > > > > > It's a small thing, but small things are big when things quiet down, and > > > we become more sensitive. So, we do this. For ourselves and for each > > > other. It's also a way of quieting things down. > > > > > > The Zen tradition has always emphasized practicing together. And it has > > > such ways of helping this work really well. > > > > > > Eyes are usually open in everything, except when sleeping. They "see", > > > but are not looking in focused fashion at anything in particular. Sight > > > is passive, and we do not "stare" at anything, nor look around. When we > > > sit or stand to meditate, we do not move any part of the body, not even > > > the eyes. Of course, the breath comes and goes naturally by itself > > > without controlling. > > > > > > Well, again, this is as I learned it and as many of us do it. > > > > > > My teacher used to tell us, though, that, "Wherever you go, just fall > > > right in with how they practice, there." As a guest, do as the host does. > > > > > > Harmonizing is probably key to the whole business. Water flows easily, > > > but a brittle stick is stubborn, and makes a loud noise when it snaps > > > (then, opportunity is lost). > > > > > > Good practice! > > > > > > The Zen in a Chair teacher may give some good example and model these > > > things. I hope it goes well! > > > > > > --Joe > > > > > > > Merle Lester <merlewiitpom@> wrote: > > > > > > > > joe..thank you..can you describe how the hands are held in standing > > > > meditation.?... i had the feeling i needed to open my eyes however in > > > > the past types of meditations there is the instruction to close the > > > > eyes...merle > > > > > > > > > > > >
