William, Well, I only take ownership of our way as it is taught. I do not take ownership of ways that are not taught.
Our "ways" are not what is revealed, or inculcated into us by our practice, say, upon awakening: our "ways" as I call and accept them, are methods, worked out over maybe 1500 years or so. WE have them now, as well as the Dharma, because teachers who themselves have practiced formally have brought them to us. We get to decide and act on what to do with them, and it's become our responsibility. The old teachers are dying off now. But their teaching need not disappear. My description of the kinhin hand position to Merle was motivated by Merle asking me about it. May I say, William, you do not need to feel "irritated" by it. I just don't see what good that serves. It's not a "few" people who have been trained formally in Zen practice by Zen teachers. It's everybody who practices with them. That's a key point. Our practice as taught is not esoteric. It's practiced by ALL. With some variations depending upon lineage, and whether Soto or Rinzai, within that. Family blood-lines. The ways taught are tools. If you think there's no technology in waking up, then there is no practice, and no possibility of awakening. Now, I don't urge or suggest any sort of practice in particular: That is not our "way". But if you choose Zen practice with a teacher, there are ways, compassionately taught, kept in circulation over generations, and made available. Hail! --Joe > William Rintala <brintala@...> wrote: > > I understand what you are saying. I take some issue with your ownership of > "our" ways. It seems as if there are several different ideas represented on > this list-serve such that "our" ways doesn't quite apply. Mike says that > meditation should be performed using a prescribed posture and hand position, > while you state that standing is acceptable and that another hand position is > allowable and someone else meditates while gardening. > > > Esoteric - understood by or meant for only the select few who have special > knowledge or interest; recondite: > > Recondite - dealing with very profound, difficult, or abstruse subject matter > > As I said I have have no desire to learn all of the profound, difficult, or > abstruse subject matter or to accept concepts that are understood by only the > select few who have special knowledge or interest. To understand why it is > important to hold my hands in a specific posture is an irritation. It is my > belief that our Buddha nature is our natural state, our Default Setting. To > trade all of the noise and urgings of society for another set of noise and > urgings does not appeal to me. It should simply be this. All of the > additional > agglomeration that has been accreted over 2500 years is noise and > distracting. > > > Â > Â > > ________________________________ > > From: Joe <desert_woodworker@...> > To: [email protected] > Sent: Sat, April 6, 2013 7:10:09 PM > Subject: [Zen] Re: standing zen meditation > > William, > > If you look for it, you may find in formal settings that there are > formalities. > > If we do not dismiss them -- and dismiss ourselves from the premises > simultaneously, thereby -- we may find ways to settle down and settle in. > Only > then will "This" come home to us. That is my observation. > > Our ways are not esoteric. Do you know what "esoteric" MEANS? > > Technology is not esoteric, necessarily. ;-) > > Do I gather that you have not practiced, yet? > > Then, it's not helpful to make determinations such as you pretend to be > making. > > I say this in order to be helpful, because many practice centers and teachers > can be of definite help, with their formal ways. Use them, and go beyond them. > > Drop the fork when you're done with dinner. > > That is our way. But don't reject them and go nowhere. Although there's > nowhere > to go. Nowhere is nowhere, you know. > > And there's no way of getting around that. Unless you pick up some tools. > > --Joe ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
