Bill, Buzz off, I saw Siska first and anyway you're married! :-)
Edgar On May 23, 2013, at 7:24 AM, Bill! wrote: > Siska, > > > Do you look something like this? > > > > ...Bill! > > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, siska_cen@... wrote: > > > > There have been occasions where Japanese mistook me as another Japanese. > > So, I'm pretty sure I'm not blonde ;-) > > > > Siska > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Edgar Owen edgarowen@... > > Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 21:36:01 > > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill! > > > > Yes, I had assumed you were Scandinavian... But I guess not blond? > > :-) > > > > Edgar > > > > > > On May 22, 2013, at 8:44 PM, siska_cen@... wrote: > > > > > Hi Edgar, > > > > > > A British-Dutch friend told me that Siska is a Dutch name. Before, I > > > thought it was Indonesian :-P > > > > > > If you meant formal education, yes, I guess part of my formal education > > > can be called western. I completed my degree in London and did my master > > > in a distance learning program with a UK's University of Leicester. > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > Siska > > > > > > From: Edgar Owen edgarowen@... > > > Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > > Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 12:06:33 -0400 > > > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > > ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill! > > > > > > > > > I thought so, but don't really know Indonesian names that well. > > > > > > > > > Anyway you sound Western educated. Is that so? > > > > > > My curiosity is because I might be available... > > > :-) > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 22, 2013, at 10:28 AM, siska_cen@... wrote: > > > > > >> > > >> Hahaha, can't you tell, from my name? I'm a woman. > > >> > > >> Mind sharing what triggered your curiosity? > > >> > > >> Siska > > >> > > >> From: Edgar Owen edgarowen@... > > >> Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > >> Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 09:53:32 -0400 > > >> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > >> ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > >> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill! > > >> > > >> > > >> OK, now I'm intrigued. Pardon me for asking but are you a woman or a > > >> man? > > >> > > >> > > >> Edgar > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> On May 22, 2013, at 9:08 AM, siska_cen@... wrote: > > >> > > >>> > > >>> I live in Jakarta. > > >>> > > >>> Uhm, in case you don't know, (many people don't), that's in Indonesia > > >>> :) > > >>> > > >>> Siska > > >>> > > >>> From: Edgar Owen edgarowen@... > > >>> Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > >>> Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 08:33:06 -0400 > > >>> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > >>> ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > >>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill! > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Interesting. Thanks. Where do you live now? > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> Edgar > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> On May 22, 2013, at 7:40 AM, siska_cen@... wrote: > > >>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Hi Edgar, > > >>>> > > >>>> Born and grew up in Indonesia, my native language is Indonesian. > > >>>> > > >>>> Siska > > >>>> > > >>>> From: Edgar Owen edgarowen@... > > >>>> Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > >>>> Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 07:08:51 -0400 > > >>>> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > >>>> ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > >>>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill! > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> Siska, > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> What's your native language? > > >>>> > > >>>> Edgar > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> On May 21, 2013, at 8:32 PM, siska_cen@... wrote: > > >>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Hi Bill, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I always like that pond haiku. Unfortunately, I often cannot relate > > >>>>> to poetry other than those in my mother language. And I think poetry > > >>>>> are best left un-translated. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> I'm better with koans.... > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Siska > > >>>>> > > >>>>> From: "Bill!" BillSmart@... > > >>>>> Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 08:20:33 -0000 > > >>>>> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> Subject: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill! > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Siska, > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Exactly! The problem with words (phrases really), especially English, > > >>>>> us that our whole language is duality-based. Even our sentence > > >>>>> structure requires a subject, a verb and an object. The subject's > > >>>>> actions or relationship to the object is described by the verb. > > >>>>> There's no way to adequately represent a totally holistic > > >>>>> (non-dualistic) experience in English. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> The closest we can get would be poetry. Japanese has a form called > > >>>>> 'haiku' which has been used by poets wanting to express their > > >>>>> holistic experience. If you read some of those you'll see they are > > >>>>> not only completely focused on sensory experience, they do so as much > > >>>>> as possible without the use of a subject. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> An example is one of the most famous haikus by Matsuo Basho: > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Japanese > > >>>>> Furu ike ya > > >>>>> kawazu tobikomu > > >>>>> mizu no oto > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Direct English Translation > > >>>>> Old pond > > >>>>> frog jumped in > > >>>>> sound of water > > >>>>> > > >>>>> Reasonable English Translation (IMO) > > >>>>> The old pond > > >>>>> A frog jumped in, > > >>>>> Kerplunk! > > >>>>> > > >>>>> A Bad English Translation (IMO) > > >>>>> A lonely pond in age-old stillness sleeps . . . > > >>>>> Apart, unstirred by sound or motion . . . till > > >>>>> Suddenly into it a lithe frog leaps. > > >>>>> > > >>>>> You can find 28 more translations and a nice commentary on this poem > > >>>>> at http://www.bopsecrets.org/gateway/passages/basho-frog.htm > > >>>>> > > >>>>> ...Bill! > > >>>>> > > >>>>> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, siska_cen@ wrote: > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > Hi Bill, > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > I know what you mean, but 'face-to-face' is commonly use in zen > > >>>>> > > to mean 'one with', or 'not separate from'. > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > Ah I see... > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > I also think the term 'one with' is a little bias, but oh well as > > >>>>> > you said, words are limited, dualistic, no matter what we use.... > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > Siska > > >>>>> > -----Original Message----- > > >>>>> > From: "Bill!" BillSmart@ > > >>>>> > Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 10:58:07 > > >>>>> > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Zuli Agrees With Bill! > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > Siska, > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > I know what you mean, but 'face-to-face' is commonly use in zen to > > >>>>> > mean 'one with', or 'not separate from'. For example many times > > >>>>> > when someone has experienced Buddha Nature they will be reported as > > >>>>> > saying, "I have met Bodhidharma face-to-face and he has not lied" - > > >>>>> > meaning he has experienced Buddha Nature and it is as Bodhidharma > > >>>>> > (or some other zen master) has described. > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > The problem we always have trying to describe a holistic experience > > >>>>> > is that we have to use a dualistic language to do so. That's why > > >>>>> > many ancient zen masters used non-verbal responses instead of > > >>>>> > trying to rationally explain what they experienced. > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > ...Bill! > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, siska_cen@ wrote: > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > Hi again Bill, > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > In regards to the duality of no experiencer to the experiences > > >>>>> > > you just discussed with Mike, would you fully agree with Zuli's > > >>>>> > > term 'face to face with the real Buddha'? > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > Siska > > >>>>> > > -----Original Message----- > > >>>>> > > From: "Bill!" BillSmart@ > > >>>>> > > Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > > Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 09:12:44 > > >>>>> > > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > > Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > > >>>>> > > Subject: [Zen] Zuli Agrees With Bill! > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > I don't know who Zuli is but that doesn't matter to me. Right's > > >>>>> > > right. > > >>>>> > > ..Bill! > > >>>>> > > > > >>>>> > > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >>> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
