Hi Edgar, Okay, I shall be careful :-)
siska -----Original Message----- From: Edgar Owen <edgaro...@att.net> Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Thu, 23 May 2013 09:16:35 To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill! Siska, Be careful. I had a Japanese girlfriend for many years! :-) Edgar On May 23, 2013, at 7:07 AM, siska_...@yahoo.com wrote: > There have been occasions where Japanese mistook me as another Japanese. So, > I'm pretty sure I'm not blonde ;-) > > Siska > > From: Edgar Owen <edgaro...@att.net> > Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 21:36:01 -0400 > To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com> > ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill! > > > Yes, I had assumed you were Scandinavian... But I guess not blond? > > :-) > > Edgar > > > On May 22, 2013, at 8:44 PM, siska_...@yahoo.com wrote: > >> >> Hi Edgar, >> >> A British-Dutch friend told me that Siska is a Dutch name. Before, I thought >> it was Indonesian :-P >> >> If you meant formal education, yes, I guess part of my formal education can >> be called western. I completed my degree in London and did my master in a >> distance learning program with a UK's University of Leicester. >> >> ;-) >> >> Siska >> >> From: Edgar Owen <edgaro...@att.net> >> Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >> Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 12:06:33 -0400 >> To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com> >> ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill! >> >> >> I thought so, but don't really know Indonesian names that well. >> >> >> Anyway you sound Western educated. Is that so? >> >> My curiosity is because I might be available... >> :-) >> >> Edgar >> >> >> >> On May 22, 2013, at 10:28 AM, siska_...@yahoo.com wrote: >> >>> >>> Hahaha, can't you tell, from my name? I'm a woman. >>> >>> Mind sharing what triggered your curiosity? >>> >>> Siska >>> >>> From: Edgar Owen <edgaro...@att.net> >>> Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>> Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 09:53:32 -0400 >>> To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com> >>> ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill! >>> >>> >>> OK, now I'm intrigued. Pardon me for asking but are you a woman or a man? >>> >>> >>> Edgar >>> >>> >>> >>> On May 22, 2013, at 9:08 AM, siska_...@yahoo.com wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> I live in Jakarta. >>>> >>>> Uhm, in case you don't know, (many people don't), that's in Indonesia :) >>>> >>>> Siska >>>> >>>> From: Edgar Owen <edgaro...@att.net> >>>> Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>>> Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 08:33:06 -0400 >>>> To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com> >>>> ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill! >>>> >>>> >>>> Interesting. Thanks. Where do you live now? >>>> >>>> >>>> Edgar >>>> >>>> >>>> On May 22, 2013, at 7:40 AM, siska_...@yahoo.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Edgar, >>>>> >>>>> Born and grew up in Indonesia, my native language is Indonesian. >>>>> >>>>> Siska >>>>> >>>>> From: Edgar Owen <edgaro...@att.net> >>>>> Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>>>> Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 07:08:51 -0400 >>>>> To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com> >>>>> ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>>>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Siska, >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> What's your native language? >>>>> >>>>> Edgar >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On May 21, 2013, at 8:32 PM, siska_...@yahoo.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Bill, >>>>>> >>>>>> I always like that pond haiku. Unfortunately, I often cannot relate to >>>>>> poetry other than those in my mother language. And I think poetry are >>>>>> best left un-translated. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm better with koans.... >>>>>> >>>>>> Siska >>>>>> >>>>>> From: "Bill!" <billsm...@hhs1963.org> >>>>>> Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>>>>> Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 08:20:33 -0000 >>>>>> To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com> >>>>>> ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>>>>> Subject: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill! >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Siska, >>>>>> >>>>>> Exactly! The problem with words (phrases really), especially English, >>>>>> us that our whole language is duality-based. Even our sentence >>>>>> structure requires a subject, a verb and an object. The subject's >>>>>> actions or relationship to the object is described by the verb. There's >>>>>> no way to adequately represent a totally holistic (non-dualistic) >>>>>> experience in English. >>>>>> >>>>>> The closest we can get would be poetry. Japanese has a form called >>>>>> 'haiku' which has been used by poets wanting to express their holistic >>>>>> experience. If you read some of those you'll see they are not only >>>>>> completely focused on sensory experience, they do so as much as possible >>>>>> without the use of a subject. >>>>>> >>>>>> An example is one of the most famous haikus by Matsuo Basho: >>>>>> >>>>>> Japanese >>>>>> Furu ike ya >>>>>> kawazu tobikomu >>>>>> mizu no oto >>>>>> >>>>>> Direct English Translation >>>>>> Old pond >>>>>> frog jumped in >>>>>> sound of water >>>>>> >>>>>> Reasonable English Translation (IMO) >>>>>> The old pond >>>>>> A frog jumped in, >>>>>> Kerplunk! >>>>>> >>>>>> A Bad English Translation (IMO) >>>>>> A lonely pond in age-old stillness sleeps . . . >>>>>> Apart, unstirred by sound or motion . . . till >>>>>> Suddenly into it a lithe frog leaps. >>>>>> >>>>>> You can find 28 more translations and a nice commentary on this poem at >>>>>> http://www.bopsecrets.org/gateway/passages/basho-frog.htm >>>>>> >>>>>> ...Bill! >>>>>> >>>>>> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, siska_cen@... wrote: >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Hi Bill, >>>>>> > >>>>>> > > I know what you mean, but 'face-to-face' is commonly use in zen to >>>>>> > > mean 'one with', or 'not separate from'. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Ah I see... >>>>>> > >>>>>> > I also think the term 'one with' is a little bias, but oh well as you >>>>>> > said, words are limited, dualistic, no matter what we use.... >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Siska >>>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>>> > From: "Bill!" BillSmart@... >>>>>> > Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>>>>> > Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 10:58:07 >>>>>> > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>>>>> > Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>>>>> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Zuli Agrees With Bill! >>>>>> > >>>>>> > Siska, >>>>>> > >>>>>> > I know what you mean, but 'face-to-face' is commonly use in zen to >>>>>> > mean 'one with', or 'not separate from'. For example many times when >>>>>> > someone has experienced Buddha Nature they will be reported as saying, >>>>>> > "I have met Bodhidharma face-to-face and he has not lied" - meaning he >>>>>> > has experienced Buddha Nature and it is as Bodhidharma (or some other >>>>>> > zen master) has described. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > The problem we always have trying to describe a holistic experience is >>>>>> > that we have to use a dualistic language to do so. That's why many >>>>>> > ancient zen masters used non-verbal responses instead of trying to >>>>>> > rationally explain what they experienced. >>>>>> > >>>>>> > ...Bill! >>>>>> > >>>>>> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, siska_cen@ wrote: >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > Hi again Bill, >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > In regards to the duality of no experiencer to the experiences you >>>>>> > > just discussed with Mike, would you fully agree with Zuli's term >>>>>> > > 'face to face with the real Buddha'? >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > Siska >>>>>> > > -----Original Message----- >>>>>> > > From: "Bill!" BillSmart@ >>>>>> > > Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>>>>> > > Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 09:12:44 >>>>>> > > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>>>>> > > Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>>>>> > > Subject: [Zen] Zuli Agrees With Bill! >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > > I don't know who Zuli is but that doesn't matter to me. Right's >>>>>> > > right. >>>>>> > > ..Bill! >>>>>> > > >>>>>> > >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > >
