There have been occasions where Japanese mistook me as another Japanese. So, I'm pretty sure I'm not blonde ;-)
Siska -----Original Message----- From: Edgar Owen <edgaro...@att.net> Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 21:36:01 To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill! Yes, I had assumed you were Scandinavian... But I guess not blond? :-) Edgar On May 22, 2013, at 8:44 PM, siska_...@yahoo.com wrote: > Hi Edgar, > > A British-Dutch friend told me that Siska is a Dutch name. Before, I thought > it was Indonesian :-P > > If you meant formal education, yes, I guess part of my formal education can > be called western. I completed my degree in London and did my master in a > distance learning program with a UK's University of Leicester. > > ;-) > > Siska > > From: Edgar Owen <edgaro...@att.net> > Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 12:06:33 -0400 > To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com> > ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill! > > > I thought so, but don't really know Indonesian names that well. > > > Anyway you sound Western educated. Is that so? > > My curiosity is because I might be available... > :-) > > Edgar > > > > On May 22, 2013, at 10:28 AM, siska_...@yahoo.com wrote: > >> >> Hahaha, can't you tell, from my name? I'm a woman. >> >> Mind sharing what triggered your curiosity? >> >> Siska >> >> From: Edgar Owen <edgaro...@att.net> >> Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >> Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 09:53:32 -0400 >> To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com> >> ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill! >> >> >> OK, now I'm intrigued. Pardon me for asking but are you a woman or a man? >> >> >> Edgar >> >> >> >> On May 22, 2013, at 9:08 AM, siska_...@yahoo.com wrote: >> >>> >>> I live in Jakarta. >>> >>> Uhm, in case you don't know, (many people don't), that's in Indonesia :) >>> >>> Siska >>> >>> From: Edgar Owen <edgaro...@att.net> >>> Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>> Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 08:33:06 -0400 >>> To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com> >>> ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill! >>> >>> >>> Interesting. Thanks. Where do you live now? >>> >>> >>> Edgar >>> >>> >>> On May 22, 2013, at 7:40 AM, siska_...@yahoo.com wrote: >>> >>>> >>>> Hi Edgar, >>>> >>>> Born and grew up in Indonesia, my native language is Indonesian. >>>> >>>> Siska >>>> >>>> From: Edgar Owen <edgaro...@att.net> >>>> Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>>> Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 07:08:51 -0400 >>>> To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com> >>>> ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill! >>>> >>>> >>>> Siska, >>>> >>>> >>>> What's your native language? >>>> >>>> Edgar >>>> >>>> >>>> On May 21, 2013, at 8:32 PM, siska_...@yahoo.com wrote: >>>> >>>>> >>>>> Hi Bill, >>>>> >>>>> I always like that pond haiku. Unfortunately, I often cannot relate to >>>>> poetry other than those in my mother language. And I think poetry are >>>>> best left un-translated. >>>>> >>>>> I'm better with koans.... >>>>> >>>>> Siska >>>>> >>>>> From: "Bill!" <billsm...@hhs1963.org> >>>>> Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>>>> Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 08:20:33 -0000 >>>>> To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com> >>>>> ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>>>> Subject: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill! >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Siska, >>>>> >>>>> Exactly! The problem with words (phrases really), especially English, us >>>>> that our whole language is duality-based. Even our sentence structure >>>>> requires a subject, a verb and an object. The subject's actions or >>>>> relationship to the object is described by the verb. There's no way to >>>>> adequately represent a totally holistic (non-dualistic) experience in >>>>> English. >>>>> >>>>> The closest we can get would be poetry. Japanese has a form called >>>>> 'haiku' which has been used by poets wanting to express their holistic >>>>> experience. If you read some of those you'll see they are not only >>>>> completely focused on sensory experience, they do so as much as possible >>>>> without the use of a subject. >>>>> >>>>> An example is one of the most famous haikus by Matsuo Basho: >>>>> >>>>> Japanese >>>>> Furu ike ya >>>>> kawazu tobikomu >>>>> mizu no oto >>>>> >>>>> Direct English Translation >>>>> Old pond >>>>> frog jumped in >>>>> sound of water >>>>> >>>>> Reasonable English Translation (IMO) >>>>> The old pond >>>>> A frog jumped in, >>>>> Kerplunk! >>>>> >>>>> A Bad English Translation (IMO) >>>>> A lonely pond in age-old stillness sleeps . . . >>>>> Apart, unstirred by sound or motion . . . till >>>>> Suddenly into it a lithe frog leaps. >>>>> >>>>> You can find 28 more translations and a nice commentary on this poem at >>>>> http://www.bopsecrets.org/gateway/passages/basho-frog.htm >>>>> >>>>> ...Bill! >>>>> >>>>> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, siska_cen@... wrote: >>>>> > >>>>> > Hi Bill, >>>>> > >>>>> > > I know what you mean, but 'face-to-face' is commonly use in zen to >>>>> > > mean 'one with', or 'not separate from'. >>>>> > >>>>> > Ah I see... >>>>> > >>>>> > I also think the term 'one with' is a little bias, but oh well as you >>>>> > said, words are limited, dualistic, no matter what we use.... >>>>> > >>>>> > Siska >>>>> > -----Original Message----- >>>>> > From: "Bill!" BillSmart@... >>>>> > Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>>>> > Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 10:58:07 >>>>> > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>>>> > Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>>>> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Zuli Agrees With Bill! >>>>> > >>>>> > Siska, >>>>> > >>>>> > I know what you mean, but 'face-to-face' is commonly use in zen to mean >>>>> > 'one with', or 'not separate from'. For example many times when someone >>>>> > has experienced Buddha Nature they will be reported as saying, "I have >>>>> > met Bodhidharma face-to-face and he has not lied" - meaning he has >>>>> > experienced Buddha Nature and it is as Bodhidharma (or some other zen >>>>> > master) has described. >>>>> > >>>>> > The problem we always have trying to describe a holistic experience is >>>>> > that we have to use a dualistic language to do so. That's why many >>>>> > ancient zen masters used non-verbal responses instead of trying to >>>>> > rationally explain what they experienced. >>>>> > >>>>> > ...Bill! >>>>> > >>>>> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, siska_cen@ wrote: >>>>> > > >>>>> > > Hi again Bill, >>>>> > > >>>>> > > In regards to the duality of no experiencer to the experiences you >>>>> > > just discussed with Mike, would you fully agree with Zuli's term >>>>> > > 'face to face with the real Buddha'? >>>>> > > >>>>> > > Siska >>>>> > > -----Original Message----- >>>>> > > From: "Bill!" BillSmart@ >>>>> > > Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>>>> > > Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 09:12:44 >>>>> > > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>>>> > > Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>>>> > > Subject: [Zen] Zuli Agrees With Bill! >>>>> > > >>>>> > > >>>>> > > I don't know who Zuli is but that doesn't matter to me. Right's >>>>> > > right. >>>>> > > ..Bill! >>>>> > > >>>>> > >>>>> >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> >>> >>> >> >> >> > > > >
