Siska,
Do you look something like this?
...Bill!
--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, siska_cen@... wrote:
>
> There have been occasions where Japanese mistook me as another
Japanese. So, I'm pretty sure I'm not blonde ;-)
>
> Siska
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Edgar Owen edgarowen@...
> Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 21:36:01
> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill!
>
> Yes, I had assumed you were Scandinavian... But I guess not blond?
> :-)
>
> Edgar
>
>
> On May 22, 2013, at 8:44 PM, siska_cen@... wrote:
>
> > Hi Edgar,
> >
> > A British-Dutch friend told me that Siska is a Dutch name. Before, I
thought it was Indonesian :-P
> >
> > If you meant formal education, yes, I guess part of my formal
education can be called western. I completed my degree in London and did
my master in a distance learning program with a UK's University of
Leicester.
> >
> > ;-)
> >
> > Siska
> >
> > From: Edgar Owen edgarowen@...
> > Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 12:06:33 -0400
> > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill!
> >
> >
> > I thought so, but don't really know Indonesian names that well.
> >
> >
> > Anyway you sound Western educated. Is that so?
> >
> > My curiosity is because I might be available...
> > :-)
> >
> > Edgar
> >
> >
> >
> > On May 22, 2013, at 10:28 AM, siska_cen@... wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Hahaha, can't you tell, from my name? I'm a woman.
> >>
> >> Mind sharing what triggered your curiosity?
> >>
> >> Siska
> >>
> >> From: Edgar Owen edgarowen@...
> >> Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> >> Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 09:53:32 -0400
> >> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> >> ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> >> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill!
> >>
> >>
> >> OK, now I'm intrigued. Pardon me for asking but are you a woman or
a man?
> >>
> >>
> >> Edgar
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> On May 22, 2013, at 9:08 AM, siska_cen@... wrote:
> >>
> >>>
> >>> I live in Jakarta.
> >>>
> >>> Uhm, in case you don't know, (many people don't), that's in
Indonesia :)
> >>>
> >>> Siska
> >>>
> >>> From: Edgar Owen edgarowen@...
> >>> Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> >>> Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 08:33:06 -0400
> >>> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> >>> ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> >>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill!
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Interesting. Thanks. Where do you live now?
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> Edgar
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> On May 22, 2013, at 7:40 AM, siska_cen@... wrote:
> >>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Hi Edgar,
> >>>>
> >>>> Born and grew up in Indonesia, my native language is Indonesian.
> >>>>
> >>>> Siska
> >>>>
> >>>> From: Edgar Owen edgarowen@...
> >>>> Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> >>>> Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 07:08:51 -0400
> >>>> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> >>>> ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> >>>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill!
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> Siska,
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> What's your native language?
> >>>>
> >>>> Edgar
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>> On May 21, 2013, at 8:32 PM, siska_cen@... wrote:
> >>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Hi Bill,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I always like that pond haiku. Unfortunately, I often cannot
relate to poetry other than those in my mother language. And I think
poetry are best left un-translated.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I'm better with koans....
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Siska
> >>>>>
> >>>>> From: "Bill!" BillSmart@...
> >>>>> Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> >>>>> Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 08:20:33 -0000
> >>>>> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> >>>>> ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> >>>>> Subject: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill!
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Siska,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Exactly! The problem with words (phrases really), especially
English, us that our whole language is duality-based. Even our sentence
structure requires a subject, a verb and an object. The subject's
actions or relationship to the object is described by the verb. There's
no way to adequately represent a totally holistic (non-dualistic)
experience in English.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> The closest we can get would be poetry. Japanese has a form
called 'haiku' which has been used by poets wanting to express their
holistic experience. If you read some of those you'll see they are not
only completely focused on sensory experience, they do so as much as
possible without the use of a subject.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> An example is one of the most famous haikus by Matsuo Basho:
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Japanese
> >>>>> Furu ike ya
> >>>>> kawazu tobikomu
> >>>>> mizu no oto
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Direct English Translation
> >>>>> Old pond
> >>>>> frog jumped in
> >>>>> sound of water
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Reasonable English Translation (IMO)
> >>>>> The old pond
> >>>>> A frog jumped in,
> >>>>> Kerplunk!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> A Bad English Translation (IMO)
> >>>>> A lonely pond in age-old stillness sleeps . . .
> >>>>> Apart, unstirred by sound or motion . . . till
> >>>>> Suddenly into it a lithe frog leaps.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> You can find 28 more translations and a nice commentary on this
poem at http://www.bopsecrets.org/gateway/passages/basho-frog.htm
> >>>>>
> >>>>> ...Bill!
> >>>>>
> >>>>> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, siska_cen@ wrote:
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Hi Bill,
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > > I know what you mean, but 'face-to-face' is commonly use in
zen to mean 'one with', or 'not separate from'.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Ah I see...
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > I also think the term 'one with' is a little bias, but oh well
as you said, words are limited, dualistic, no matter what we use....
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Siska
> >>>>> > -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> > From: "Bill!" BillSmart@
> >>>>> > Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> >>>>> > Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 10:58:07
> >>>>> > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> >>>>> > Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> >>>>> > Subject: Re: [Zen] Zuli Agrees With Bill!
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > Siska,
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > I know what you mean, but 'face-to-face' is commonly use in
zen to mean 'one with', or 'not separate from'. For example many times
when someone has experienced Buddha Nature they will be reported as
saying, "I have met Bodhidharma face-to-face and he has not lied" -
meaning he has experienced Buddha Nature and it is as Bodhidharma (or
some other zen master) has described.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > The problem we always have trying to describe a holistic
experience is that we have to use a dualistic language to do so. That's
why many ancient zen masters used non-verbal responses instead of trying
to rationally explain what they experienced.
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > ...Bill!
> >>>>> >
> >>>>> > --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, siska_cen@ wrote:
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > Hi again Bill,
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > In regards to the duality of no experiencer to the
experiences you just discussed with Mike, would you fully agree with
Zuli's term 'face to face with the real Buddha'?
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > Siska
> >>>>> > > -----Original Message-----
> >>>>> > > From: "Bill!" BillSmart@
> >>>>> > > Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> >>>>> > > Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 09:12:44
> >>>>> > > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> >>>>> > > Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com
> >>>>> > > Subject: [Zen] Zuli Agrees With Bill!
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> > > I don't know who Zuli is but that doesn't matter to me.
Right's right.
> >>>>> > > ..Bill!
> >>>>> > >
> >>>>> >
> >>>>>
> >>>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
