Merle, Were you sharing your impression back in 1974 or that was still your impression about indonesia?
What was your backpack track? Indonesia is big, you couldn't have covered all, especially that you came through Timor and then Bali. Either you headed west or east. But most probably you did west, after which you went to Java then Sumatra. After Indonesia, where did you go? I am currently reading a book by indonesian backpacker who started from Beijing, through the himalayan mountains, heading for Africa, very interesting.... Siska -----Original Message----- From: Merle Lester <merlewiit...@yahoo.com> Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 16:39:57 To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com<Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com> Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Zen] indonesia siska.. i was in jakarta in august 1974..i was not impressed...there i saw the extremely wealth and poverty... i left darwin in june 1974 to back pack through asia... my first port of call was east timor..bali...then all through indonesia..(.i am also unhappy as to the massacre of the east timor people by the indonesians) i have a modern batik painting by a well known Indonesian artist...i did enjoy my time in indonesia..so full of colour and vibrancy...merle Uhm, in case you don't know, (many people don't), that's in Indonesia :) Siska ________________________________ From: Edgar Owen <edgaro...@att.net> Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 08:33:06 -0400 To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com> ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill! Interesting. Thanks. Where do you live now? Edgar On May 22, 2013, at 7:40 AM, siska_...@yahoo.com wrote: >Hi Edgar, > >Born and grew up in Indonesia, my native language is Indonesian. > >Siska >________________________________ > >From: Edgar Owen <edgaro...@att.net> >Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >Date: Wed, 22 May 2013 07:08:51 -0400 >To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com> >ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill! > > >Siska, > > >What's your native language? > > >Edgar > > > > >On May 21, 2013, at 8:32 PM, siska_...@yahoo.com wrote: > > >>Hi Bill, >> >>I always like that pond haiku. Unfortunately, I often cannot relate to poetry >>other than those in my mother language. And I think poetry are best left >>un-translated. >> >>I'm better with koans.... >> >>Siska >>________________________________ >> >>From: "Bill!" <billsm...@hhs1963.org> >>Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>Date: Tue, 21 May 2013 08:20:33 -0000 >>To: <Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com> >>ReplyTo: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>Subject: [Zen] Re: Zuli Agrees With Bill! >> >> >> >> >>Siska, >> >> >>Exactly! The problem with words (phrases really), especially English, us >>that our whole language is duality-based. Even our sentence structure >>requires a subject, a verb and an object. The subject's actions or >>relationship to the object is described by the verb. There's no way to >>adequately represent a totally holistic (non-dualistic) experience in English. >> >> >>The closest we can get would be poetry. Japanese has a form called 'haiku' >>which has been used by poets wanting to express their holistic experience. >>If you read some of those you'll see they are not only completely focused on >>sensory experience, they do so as much as possible without the use of a >>subject. >> >> >>An example is one of the most famous haikus by Matsuo Basho: >> >> >>Japanese >>Furu ike ya >>kawazu tobikomu >>mizu no oto >> >> >>Direct English Translation >>Old pond >>frog jumped in >>sound of water >> >> >>Reasonable English Translation (IMO) >>The old pond >>A frog jumped in, >>Kerplunk! >> >> >>A Bad English Translation (IMO) >>A lonely pond in age-old stillness sleeps . . . >>Apart, unstirred by sound or motion . . . till >>Suddenly into it a lithe frog leaps. >> >> >>You can find 28 more translations and a nice commentary on this poem at >>http://www.bopsecrets.org/gateway/passages/basho-frog.htm >> >> >>...Bill! >> >>--- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, siska_cen@... wrote: >>> >>> Hi Bill, >>> >>> > I know what you mean, but 'face-to-face' is commonly use in zen to mean >>> > 'one with', or 'not separate from'. >>> >>> Ah I see... >>> >>> I also think the term 'one with' is a little bias, but oh well as you said, >>> words are limited, dualistic, no matter what we use.... >>> >>> Siska >>> -----Original Message----- >>> From: "Bill!" BillSmart@... >>> Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>> Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 10:58:07 >>> To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>> Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>> Subject: Re: [Zen] Zuli Agrees With Bill! >>> >>> Siska, >>> >>> I know what you mean, but 'face-to-face' is commonly use in zen to mean >>> 'one with', or 'not separate from'. For example many times when someone >>> has experienced Buddha Nature they will be reported as saying, "I have met >>> Bodhidharma face-to-face and he has not lied" - meaning he has experienced >>> Buddha Nature and it is as Bodhidharma (or some other zen master) has >>> described. >>> >>> The problem we always have trying to describe a holistic experience is that >>> we have to use a dualistic language to do so. That's why many ancient zen >>> masters used non-verbal responses instead of trying to rationally explain >>> what they experienced. >>> >>> ...Bill! >>> >>> --- In Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com, siska_cen@ wrote: >>> > >>> > Hi again Bill, >>> > >>> > In regards to the duality of no experiencer to the experiences you just >>> > discussed with Mike, would you fully agree with Zuli's term 'face to face >>> > with the real Buddha'? >>> > >>> > Siska >>> > -----Original Message----- >>> > From: "Bill!" BillSmart@ >>> > Sender: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>> > Date: Sun, 19 May 2013 09:12:44 >>> > To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>> > Reply-To: Zen_Forum@yahoogroups.com >>> > Subject: [Zen] Zuli Agrees With Bill! >>> > >>> > >>> > I don't know who Zuli is but that doesn't matter to me. Right's right. >>> > ..Bill! >>> > >>> >> >> >> >> >> > > > > >
