Bill, LOL! You are too funny. Trying to be rational but you don't know the difference between syllogism and solipsism!
No wonder you are so opposed to rationality if you don't have any! :-) OK, now here's the answer to your question. External reality consists ONLY of empty evolving information forms. It's like software continuously running to compute the current form state of the world of forms. (NO, it's not the business software you are familiar with, it's REALITY software. You need to educate yourself on the general principles of computation and information theory a la Turing and others to understand this to understand what software actually is.) PS: Business software NAUSEATES ME TOO, but this is much much different, it's the basic logical rules of reality. Every being, humans and other organisms, all construct a model of that reality in their own heads. That is the world they think they live in. Thus the apparent bright colorful physical world we think we live in is an illusion of our minds. However it is BASE ON the empty information structure of external reality. If it wasn't we could neither function nor exist. THIS IS WHAT EVERY FRIGGING ENLIGHTENED PERSON SINCE THE VEDAS THROUGH BUDDHA THROUGH THE ZEN PATRIARCHS THROUGH DOGEN TO ME HAS SAID. If you can't understand it and deny it you deny Zen itself. The only other people in the world that share your solipsism that all forms are in your own head were Bishop Berkeley and a few inhabitants of mental wards... You correctly recognize that the world you live in IS a product of your own head, but you fail to recognize that there is an external reality of empty information forms it's based upon... Edgar On May 25, 2013, at 9:13 AM, Bill! wrote: > Edgar, > > You wrote: "The world we think we live in is ENTIRELY A PRODUCT OF OUR MIND." > > Gee, that kind of sounds like syllogism to me...;>) > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > > > Varamtha, > > > > OBE's become very simple to understand once you understand that the mind > > generates its own reality. The world we think we live in is ENTIRELY A > > PRODUCT OF OUR MIND. > > > > Part of the structure of that simulated mental world is the mind placing > > the experience of the self INSIDE the physical body in the first place. > > That is a mentally constructed part of the illusion. > > > > When this is understood it's trivial to understand why the mind might want > > to relocate the experience of the self OUTSIDE the physical body when the > > physical body is in extreme distress. > > > > Self inside or outside of the physical body. EITHER WAY it's a constructed > > ILLUSION of mind. > > > > > > I had a strong OBE myself in Japan in the mountains of Iya district when > > the car I was in skidded towards the edge of very high cliff and ended up > > with the front bumper hanging over the edge. > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > On May 25, 2013, at 7:37 AM, varamtha@... wrote: > > > > > New science is shedding light on what really happens during out-of-body > > > experiences -- with shocking results. > > > By Mario Beauregard > > > > > > http://www.salon.com/2012/04/21/near_death_explained/ > > > > > > This article was adapted from the new book "Brain Wars", from Harper One. > > > > > > In 1991, Atlanta-based singer and songwriter Pam Reynolds felt extremely > > > dizzy, lost her ability to speak, and had difficulty moving her body. A > > > CAT scan showed that she had a giant artery aneurysm—a grossly swollen > > > blood vessel in the wall of her basilar artery, close to the brain stem. > > > If it burst, which could happen at any moment, it would kill her. But the > > > standard surgery to drain and repair it might kill her too. > > > > > > With no other options, Pam turned to a last, desperate measure offered by > > > neurosurgeon Robert Spetzler at the Barrow Neurological Institute in > > > Phoenix, Arizona. Dr. Spetzler was a specialist and pioneer in > > > hypothermic cardiac arrest—a daring surgical procedure nicknamed > > > "Operation Standstill." Spetzler would bring Pam's body down to a > > > temperature so low that she was essentially dead. Her brain would not > > > function, but it would be able to survive longer without oxygen at this > > > temperature. The low temperature would also soften the swollen blood > > > vessels, allowing them to be operated on with less risk of bursting. When > > > the procedure was complete, the surgical team would bring her back to a > > > normal temperature before irreversible damage set in. > > > > > > Essentially, Pam agreed to die in order to save her life—and in the > > > process had what is perhaps the most famous case of independent > > > corroboration of out of body experience (OBE) perceptions on record. This > > > case is especially important because cardiologist Michael Sabom was able > > > to obtain verification from medical personnel regarding crucial details > > > of the surgical intervention that Pam reported. Here's what happened. > > > > > > Pam was brought into the operating room at 7:15 a.m., she was given > > > general anesthesia, and she quickly lost conscious awareness. At this > > > point, Spetzler and his team of more than 20 physicians, nurses, and > > > technicians went to work. They lubricated Pam's eyes to prevent drying, > > > and taped them shut. They attached EEG electrodes to monitor the > > > electrical activity of her cerebral cortex. They inserted small, molded > > > speakers into her ears and secured them with gauze and tape. The speakers > > > would emit repeated 100-decibel clicks—approximately the noise produced > > > by a speeding express train—eliminating outside sounds and measuring the > > > activity of her brainstem. > > > > > > At 8:40 a.m., the tray of surgical instruments was uncovered, and Robert > > > Spetzler began cutting through Pam's skull with a special surgical saw > > > that produced a noise similar to a dental drill. At this moment, Pam > > > later said, she felt herself "pop" out of her body and hover above it, > > > watching as doctors worked on her body. > > > > > > Although she no longer had use of her eyes and ears, she described her > > > observations in terms of her senses and perceptions. "I thought the way > > > they had my head shaved was very peculiar," she said. "I expected them to > > > take all of the hair, but they did not." She also described the Midas Rex > > > bone saw ("The saw thing that I hated the sound of looked like an > > > electric toothbrush and it had a dent in it … ") and the dental-drill > > > sound it made with considerable accuracy. > > > > > > Meanwhile, Spetzler was removing the outermost membrane of Pamela's > > > brain, cutting it open with scissors. At about the same time, a female > > > cardiac surgeon was attempting to locate the femoral artery in Pam's > > > right groin. Remarkably, Pam later claimed to remember a female voice > > > saying, "We have a problem. Her arteries are too small." And then a male > > > voice: "Try the other side." Medical records confirm this conversation, > > > yet Pam could not have heard them. > > > > > > The cardiac surgeon was right—Pam's blood vessels were indeed too small > > > to accept the abundant blood flow requested by the cardiopulmonary bypass > > > machine, so at 10:50 a.m., a tube was inserted into Pam's left femoral > > > artery and connected to the cardiopulmonary bypass machine. The warm > > > blood circulated from the artery into the cylinders of the bypass > > > machine, where it was cooled down before being returned to her body. Her > > > body temperature began to fall, and at 11:05 a.m. Pam's heart stopped. > > > Her EEG brain waves flattened into total silence. A few minutes later, > > > her brain stem became totally unresponsive, and her body temperature fell > > > to a sepulchral 60 degrees Fahrenheit. At 11:25 a.m., the team tilted up > > > the head of the operating table, turned off the bypass machine, and > > > drained the blood from her body. Pamela Reynolds was clinically dead. > > > > > > At this point, Pam's out-of-body adventure transformed into a near-death > > > experience (NDE): She recalls floating out of the operating room and > > > traveling down a tunnel with a light. She saw deceased relatives and > > > friends, including her long-dead grandmother, waiting at the end of this > > > tunnel. She entered the presence of a brilliant, wonderfully warm and > > > loving light, and sensed that her soul was part of God and that > > > everything in existence was created from the light (the breathing of > > > God). But this extraordinary experience ended abruptly, as Reynolds's > > > deceased uncle led her back to her body—a feeling she described as > > > "plunging into a pool of ice." > > > > > > Meanwhile, in the operating room, the surgery had come to an end. When > > > all the blood had drained from Pam's brain, the aneurysm simply collapsed > > > and Spetzler clipped it off. Soon, the bypass machine was turned on and > > > warm blood was pumped back into her body. As her body temperature started > > > to increase, her brainsteam began to respond to the clicking speakers in > > > her ears and the EEG recorded electrical activity in the cortex. The > > > bypass machine was turned off at 12:32 p.m. Pam's life had been restored, > > > and she was taken to the recovery room in stable condition at 2:10 p.m. > > > > > > Tales of otherworldly experiences have been part of human cultures > > > seemingly forever, but NDEs as such first came to broad public attention > > > in 1975 by way of American psychiatrist and philosopher Raymond Moody's > > > popular book Life After Life. He presented more than 100 case studies of > > > people who experienced vivid mental experiences close to death or during > > > "clinical death" and were subsequently revived to tell the tale. Their > > > experiences were remarkably similar, and Moody coined the term NDE to > > > refer to this phenomenon. The book was popular and controversial, and > > > scientific investigation of NDEs began soon after its publication with > > > the founding, in 1978, of the International Association for Near Death > > > Studies (IANDS)—the first organization in the world devoted to the > > > scientific study of NDEs and their relationship to mind and consciousness. > > > > > > NDEs are the vivid, realistic, and often deeply life-changing experiences > > > of men, women, and children who have been physiologically or > > > psychologically close to death. They can be evoked by cardiac arrest and > > > coma caused by brain damage, intoxication, or asphyxia. They can also > > > happen following such events as electrocution, complications from > > > surgery, or severe blood loss during or after a delivery. They can even > > > occur as the result of accidents or illnesses in which individuals > > > genuinely fear they might die. Surveys conducted in the United States and > > > Germany suggest that approximately 4.2 percent of the population has > > > reported an NDE. It has also been estimated that more than 25 million > > > individuals worldwide have had an NDE in the past 50 years. > > > > > > People from all walks of life and belief systems have this experience. > > > Studies indicate that the experience of an NDE is not influenced by > > > gender, race, socioeconomic status, or level of education. Although NDEs > > > are sometimes presented as religious experiences, this seems to be a > > > matter of individual perception. Furthermore, researchers have found no > > > relationship between religion and the experience of an NDE. That is, it > > > did not matter whether the people recruited in those studies were > > > Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, Buddhist, atheist, or > > > agnostic. > > > > > > Although the details differ, NDEs are characterized by a number of core > > > features. Perhaps the most vivid is the OBE: the sense of having left > > > one's body and of watching events going on around one's body or, > > > occasionally, at some distant physical location. During OBEs, near-death > > > experiencers (NDErs) are often astonished to discover that they have > > > retained consciousness, perception, lucid thinking, memory, emotions, and > > > their sense of personal identity. If anything, these processes are > > > heightened: Thinking is vivid; hearing is sharp; and vision can extend to > > > 360 degrees. NDErs claim that without physical bodies, they are able to > > > penetrate through walls and doors and project themselves wherever they > > > want. They frequently report the ability to read people's thoughts. > > > > > > The effects of NDEs on the experience are intense, overwhelming, and > > > real. A number of studies conducted in United States, Western European > > > countries, and Australia have shown that most NDErs are profoundly and > > > positively transformed by the experience. One woman says, "I was > > > completely altered after the accident. I was another person, according to > > > those who lived near me. I was happy, laughing, appreciated little > > > things, joked, smiled a lot, became friends with everyone … so completely > > > different than I was before!" > > > > > > However different their personalities before the NDE, experiencers tend > > > to share a similar psychological profile after the NDE. Indeed, their > > > beliefs, values, behaviors, and worldviews seem quite comparable > > > afterward. Importantly, these psychological and behavioral changes are > > > not the kind of changes one would expect if this experience were a > > > hallucination. And, as noted NDE researcher Pim van Lommel and his > > > colleagues have demonstrated, these changes become more apparent with the > > > passage of time. > > > > > > Some skeptics legitimately argue that the main problem with reports of > > > OBE perceptions is that they often rest uniquely on the NDEr's > > > testimony—there is no independent corroboration. From a scientific > > > perspective, such self-reports remain inconclusive. But during the last > > > few decades, some self-reports of NDErs have been independently > > > corroborated by witnesses, such as that of Pam Reynolds. One of the best > > > known of these corroborated veridical NDE perceptions—perceptions that > > > can be proven to coincide with reality—is the experience of a woman named > > > Maria, whose case was first documented by her critical care social > > > worker, Kimberly Clark. > > > > > > Maria was a migrant worker who had a severe heart attack while visiting > > > friends in Seattle. She was rushed to Harborview Hospital and placed in > > > the coronary care unit. A few days later, she had a cardiac arrest but > > > was rapidly resuscitated. The following day, Clark visited her. Maria > > > told Clark that during her cardiac arrest she was able to look down from > > > the ceiling and watch the medical team at work on her body. At one point > > > in this experience, said Maria, she found herself outside the hospital > > > and spotted a tennis shoe on the ledge of the north side of the third > > > floor of the building. She was able to provide several details regarding > > > its appearance, including the observations that one of its laces was > > > stuck underneath the heel and that the little toe area was worn. Maria > > > wanted to know for sure whether she had "really" seen that shoe, and she > > > begged Clark to try to locate it. > > > > > > Quite skeptical, Clark went to the location described by Maria—and found > > > the tennis shoe. From the window of her hospital room, the details that > > > Maria had recounted could not be discerned. But upon retrieval of the > > > shoe, Clark confirmed Maria's observations. "The only way she could have > > > had such a perspective," said Clark, "was if she had been floating right > > > outside and at very close range to the tennis shoe. I retrieved the shoe > > > and brought it back to Maria; it was very concrete evidence for me." > > > > > > This case is particularly impressive given that during cardiac arrest, > > > the flow of blood to the brain is interrupted. When this happens, the > > > brain's electrical activity (as measured with EEG) disappears after 10 to > > > 20 seconds. In this state, a patient is deeply comatose. Because the > > > brain structures mediating higher mental functions are severely impaired, > > > such patients are expected to have no clear and lucid mental experiences > > > that will be remembered. Nonetheless, studies conducted in the > > > Netherlands, United Kingdom, and United States have revealed that > > > approximately 15 percent of cardiac arrest survivors do report some > > > recollection from the time when they were clinically dead. These studies > > > indicate that consciousness, perceptions, thoughts, and feelings can be > > > experienced during a period when the brain shows no measurable activity. > > > > > > NDEs experienced by people who do not have sight in everyday life are > > > quite intriguing. In 1994, researchers Kenneth Ring and Sharon Cooper > > > decided to undertake a search for cases of NDE-based perception in the > > > blind. They reasoned that such cases would represent the ultimate > > > demonstration of veridical perceptions during NDEs. If a blind person was > > > able to report on verifiable events that took place when they were > > > clinically dead, that would mean something real was occurring. They > > > interviewed 31 individuals, of whom 14 were blind from birth. Twenty-one > > > of the participants had had an NDE; the others had had OBEs only. > > > Strikingly, the experiences they reported conform to the classic NDE > > > pattern, whether they were born blind or had lost their sight in later > > > life. The results of the study were published in 1997. Based on all the > > > cases they investigated, Ring and Cooper concluded that what happens > > > during an NDE affords another perspective to perceive reality that does > > > not depend on the senses of the physical body. They proposed to call this > > > other mode of perception mindsight. > > > > > > Despite corroborated reports, many materialist scientists cling to the > > > notion that OBEs and NDEs are located in the brain. In 2002, neurologist > > > Olaf Blanke and colleagues at the University Hospitals of Geneva and > > > Lausanne in Switzerland described in the prestigious scientific journal > > > Nature the strange occurrence that happened to a 43-year-old female > > > patient with epilepsy. Because her seizures could not be controlled by > > > medication alone, neurosurgery was being considered as the next step. The > > > researchers implanted electrodes in her right temporal lobe to provide > > > information about the localization and extent of the epileptogenic > > > zone—the area of the brain that was causing the seizures—which had to be > > > surgically removed. Other electrodes were implanted to identify and > > > localize, by means of electrical stimulation, the areas of the brain > > > that—if removed—would result in loss of sensory capacities, linguistic > > > ability, or even paralysis. Such a procedure is particularly critical to > > > spare important brain areas that are adjacent to the epileptogenic zone. > > > > > > When they stimulated the angular gyrus—a region of the brain in the > > > parietal lobe that is thought to integrate sensory information related to > > > vision, touch, and balance to give us a perception of our own bodies—the > > > patient reported seeing herself "lying in bed, from above, but I only see > > > my legs and lower trunk." She described herself as "floating" near the > > > ceiling. She also reported seeing her legs "becoming shorter." > > > > > > The article received global press coverage and created quite a commotion. > > > The editors of Nature went so far as to declare triumphantly that as a > > > result of this one study—which involved only one patient—the part of the > > > brain that can induce OBEs had been located. > > > > > > "It's another blow against those who believe that the mind and spirit are > > > somehow separate from the brain," said psychologist Michael Shermer, > > > director of the Skeptics Society, which seeks to debunk all kinds of > > > paranormal claims. "In reality, all experience is derived from the brain." > > > > > > In another article published in 2004, Blanke and co-workers described six > > > patients, of whom three had experienced an atypical and incomplete OBE. > > > Four patients reported an autoscopy—that is, they saw their own double > > > from the vantage point of their own body. In this paper, the researchers > > > describe an OBE as a temporary dysfunction of the junction of the > > > temporal and parietal cortex. But, as Pim van Lommel noted, the abnormal > > > bodily experiences described by Blanke and colleagues entail a false > > > sense of reality. > > > Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are > > > reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > >
