Edgar, My bad! You're right, I meant solipsism.
And you're right again, I do fail to recognize that there is an external reality of empty information forms. I recognize that these forms are dualistic illusions I create and project on reality. You're 2 for 2 tonight! (My night, your morning) ...Bill! --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > LOL! You are too funny. Trying to be rational but you don't know the > difference between syllogism and solipsism! > > No wonder you are so opposed to rationality if you don't have any! > :-) > > > OK, now here's the answer to your question. > > External reality consists ONLY of empty evolving information forms. It's like > software continuously running to compute the current form state of the world > of forms. (NO, it's not the business software you are familiar with, it's > REALITY software. You need to educate yourself on the general principles of > computation and information theory a la Turing and others to understand this > to understand what software actually is.) PS: Business software NAUSEATES ME > TOO, but this is much much different, it's the basic logical rules of reality. > > Every being, humans and other organisms, all construct a model of that > reality in their own heads. That is the world they think they live in. > > Thus the apparent bright colorful physical world we think we live in is an > illusion of our minds. However it is BASE ON the empty information structure > of external reality. If it wasn't we could neither function nor exist. > > THIS IS WHAT EVERY FRIGGING ENLIGHTENED PERSON SINCE THE VEDAS THROUGH BUDDHA > THROUGH THE ZEN PATRIARCHS THROUGH DOGEN TO ME HAS SAID. > > If you can't understand it and deny it you deny Zen itself. > > The only other people in the world that share your solipsism that all forms > are in your own head were Bishop Berkeley and a few inhabitants of mental > wards... > > You correctly recognize that the world you live in IS a product of your own > head, but you fail to recognize that there is an external reality of empty > information forms it's based upon... > > Edgar > > > > > > > On May 25, 2013, at 9:13 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > Edgar, > > > > You wrote: "The world we think we live in is ENTIRELY A PRODUCT OF OUR > > MIND." > > > > Gee, that kind of sounds like syllogism to me...;>) > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > Varamtha, > > > > > > OBE's become very simple to understand once you understand that the mind > > > generates its own reality. The world we think we live in is ENTIRELY A > > > PRODUCT OF OUR MIND. > > > > > > Part of the structure of that simulated mental world is the mind placing > > > the experience of the self INSIDE the physical body in the first place. > > > That is a mentally constructed part of the illusion. > > > > > > When this is understood it's trivial to understand why the mind might > > > want to relocate the experience of the self OUTSIDE the physical body > > > when the physical body is in extreme distress. > > > > > > Self inside or outside of the physical body. EITHER WAY it's a > > > constructed ILLUSION of mind. > > > > > > > > > I had a strong OBE myself in Japan in the mountains of Iya district when > > > the car I was in skidded towards the edge of very high cliff and ended up > > > with the front bumper hanging over the edge. > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 25, 2013, at 7:37 AM, varamtha@ wrote: > > > > > > > New science is shedding light on what really happens during out-of-body > > > > experiences -- with shocking results. > > > > By Mario Beauregard > > > > > > > > http://www.salon.com/2012/04/21/near_death_explained/ > > > > > > > > This article was adapted from the new book "Brain Wars", from Harper > > > > One. > > > > > > > > In 1991, Atlanta-based singer and songwriter Pam Reynolds felt > > > > extremely dizzy, lost her ability to speak, and had difficulty moving > > > > her body. A CAT scan showed that she had a giant artery aneurysma > > > > grossly swollen blood vessel in the wall of her basilar artery, close > > > > to the brain stem. If it burst, which could happen at any moment, it > > > > would kill her. But the standard surgery to drain and repair it might > > > > kill her too. > > > > > > > > With no other options, Pam turned to a last, desperate measure offered > > > > by neurosurgeon Robert Spetzler at the Barrow Neurological Institute in > > > > Phoenix, Arizona. Dr. Spetzler was a specialist and pioneer in > > > > hypothermic cardiac arresta daring surgical procedure nicknamed > > > > "Operation Standstill." Spetzler would bring Pam's body down to a > > > > temperature so low that she was essentially dead. Her brain would not > > > > function, but it would be able to survive longer without oxygen at this > > > > temperature. The low temperature would also soften the swollen blood > > > > vessels, allowing them to be operated on with less risk of bursting. > > > > When the procedure was complete, the surgical team would bring her back > > > > to a normal temperature before irreversible damage set in. > > > > > > > > Essentially, Pam agreed to die in order to save her lifeand in the > > > > process had what is perhaps the most famous case of independent > > > > corroboration of out of body experience (OBE) perceptions on record. > > > > This case is especially important because cardiologist Michael Sabom > > > > was able to obtain verification from medical personnel regarding > > > > crucial details of the surgical intervention that Pam reported. Here's > > > > what happened. > > > > > > > > Pam was brought into the operating room at 7:15 a.m., she was given > > > > general anesthesia, and she quickly lost conscious awareness. At this > > > > point, Spetzler and his team of more than 20 physicians, nurses, and > > > > technicians went to work. They lubricated Pam's eyes to prevent drying, > > > > and taped them shut. They attached EEG electrodes to monitor the > > > > electrical activity of her cerebral cortex. They inserted small, molded > > > > speakers into her ears and secured them with gauze and tape. The > > > > speakers would emit repeated 100-decibel clicksapproximately the noise > > > > produced by a speeding express traineliminating outside sounds and > > > > measuring the activity of her brainstem. > > > > > > > > At 8:40 a.m., the tray of surgical instruments was uncovered, and > > > > Robert Spetzler began cutting through Pam's skull with a special > > > > surgical saw that produced a noise similar to a dental drill. At this > > > > moment, Pam later said, she felt herself "pop" out of her body and > > > > hover above it, watching as doctors worked on her body. > > > > > > > > Although she no longer had use of her eyes and ears, she described her > > > > observations in terms of her senses and perceptions. "I thought the way > > > > they had my head shaved was very peculiar," she said. "I expected them > > > > to take all of the hair, but they did not." She also described the > > > > Midas Rex bone saw ("The saw thing that I hated the sound of looked > > > > like an electric toothbrush and it had a dent in it ") and the > > > > dental-drill sound it made with considerable accuracy. > > > > > > > > Meanwhile, Spetzler was removing the outermost membrane of Pamela's > > > > brain, cutting it open with scissors. At about the same time, a female > > > > cardiac surgeon was attempting to locate the femoral artery in Pam's > > > > right groin. Remarkably, Pam later claimed to remember a female voice > > > > saying, "We have a problem. Her arteries are too small." And then a > > > > male voice: "Try the other side." Medical records confirm this > > > > conversation, yet Pam could not have heard them. > > > > > > > > The cardiac surgeon was rightPam's blood vessels were indeed too small > > > > to accept the abundant blood flow requested by the cardiopulmonary > > > > bypass machine, so at 10:50 a.m., a tube was inserted into Pam's left > > > > femoral artery and connected to the cardiopulmonary bypass machine. The > > > > warm blood circulated from the artery into the cylinders of the bypass > > > > machine, where it was cooled down before being returned to her body. > > > > Her body temperature began to fall, and at 11:05 a.m. Pam's heart > > > > stopped. Her EEG brain waves flattened into total silence. A few > > > > minutes later, her brain stem became totally unresponsive, and her body > > > > temperature fell to a sepulchral 60 degrees Fahrenheit. At 11:25 a.m., > > > > the team tilted up the head of the operating table, turned off the > > > > bypass machine, and drained the blood from her body. Pamela Reynolds > > > > was clinically dead. > > > > > > > > At this point, Pam's out-of-body adventure transformed into a > > > > near-death experience (NDE): She recalls floating out of the operating > > > > room and traveling down a tunnel with a light. She saw deceased > > > > relatives and friends, including her long-dead grandmother, waiting at > > > > the end of this tunnel. She entered the presence of a brilliant, > > > > wonderfully warm and loving light, and sensed that her soul was part of > > > > God and that everything in existence was created from the light (the > > > > breathing of God). But this extraordinary experience ended abruptly, as > > > > Reynolds's deceased uncle led her back to her bodya feeling she > > > > described as "plunging into a pool of ice." > > > > > > > > Meanwhile, in the operating room, the surgery had come to an end. When > > > > all the blood had drained from Pam's brain, the aneurysm simply > > > > collapsed and Spetzler clipped it off. Soon, the bypass machine was > > > > turned on and warm blood was pumped back into her body. As her body > > > > temperature started to increase, her brainsteam began to respond to the > > > > clicking speakers in her ears and the EEG recorded electrical activity > > > > in the cortex. The bypass machine was turned off at 12:32 p.m. Pam's > > > > life had been restored, and she was taken to the recovery room in > > > > stable condition at 2:10 p.m. > > > > > > > > Tales of otherworldly experiences have been part of human cultures > > > > seemingly forever, but NDEs as such first came to broad public > > > > attention in 1975 by way of American psychiatrist and philosopher > > > > Raymond Moody's popular book Life After Life. He presented more than > > > > 100 case studies of people who experienced vivid mental experiences > > > > close to death or during "clinical death" and were subsequently revived > > > > to tell the tale. Their experiences were remarkably similar, and Moody > > > > coined the term NDE to refer to this phenomenon. The book was popular > > > > and controversial, and scientific investigation of NDEs began soon > > > > after its publication with the founding, in 1978, of the International > > > > Association for Near Death Studies (IANDS)the first organization in > > > > the world devoted to the scientific study of NDEs and their > > > > relationship to mind and consciousness. > > > > > > > > NDEs are the vivid, realistic, and often deeply life-changing > > > > experiences of men, women, and children who have been physiologically > > > > or psychologically close to death. They can be evoked by cardiac arrest > > > > and coma caused by brain damage, intoxication, or asphyxia. They can > > > > also happen following such events as electrocution, complications from > > > > surgery, or severe blood loss during or after a delivery. They can even > > > > occur as the result of accidents or illnesses in which individuals > > > > genuinely fear they might die. Surveys conducted in the United States > > > > and Germany suggest that approximately 4.2 percent of the population > > > > has reported an NDE. It has also been estimated that more than 25 > > > > million individuals worldwide have had an NDE in the past 50 years. > > > > > > > > People from all walks of life and belief systems have this experience. > > > > Studies indicate that the experience of an NDE is not influenced by > > > > gender, race, socioeconomic status, or level of education. Although > > > > NDEs are sometimes presented as religious experiences, this seems to be > > > > a matter of individual perception. Furthermore, researchers have found > > > > no relationship between religion and the experience of an NDE. That is, > > > > it did not matter whether the people recruited in those studies were > > > > Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Hindu, Jewish, Buddhist, atheist, or > > > > agnostic. > > > > > > > > Although the details differ, NDEs are characterized by a number of core > > > > features. Perhaps the most vivid is the OBE: the sense of having left > > > > one's body and of watching events going on around one's body or, > > > > occasionally, at some distant physical location. During OBEs, > > > > near-death experiencers (NDErs) are often astonished to discover that > > > > they have retained consciousness, perception, lucid thinking, memory, > > > > emotions, and their sense of personal identity. If anything, these > > > > processes are heightened: Thinking is vivid; hearing is sharp; and > > > > vision can extend to 360 degrees. NDErs claim that without physical > > > > bodies, they are able to penetrate through walls and doors and project > > > > themselves wherever they want. They frequently report the ability to > > > > read people's thoughts. > > > > > > > > The effects of NDEs on the experience are intense, overwhelming, and > > > > real. A number of studies conducted in United States, Western European > > > > countries, and Australia have shown that most NDErs are profoundly and > > > > positively transformed by the experience. One woman says, "I was > > > > completely altered after the accident. I was another person, according > > > > to those who lived near me. I was happy, laughing, appreciated little > > > > things, joked, smiled a lot, became friends with everyone so > > > > completely different than I was before!" > > > > > > > > However different their personalities before the NDE, experiencers tend > > > > to share a similar psychological profile after the NDE. Indeed, their > > > > beliefs, values, behaviors, and worldviews seem quite comparable > > > > afterward. Importantly, these psychological and behavioral changes are > > > > not the kind of changes one would expect if this experience were a > > > > hallucination. And, as noted NDE researcher Pim van Lommel and his > > > > colleagues have demonstrated, these changes become more apparent with > > > > the passage of time. > > > > > > > > Some skeptics legitimately argue that the main problem with reports of > > > > OBE perceptions is that they often rest uniquely on the NDEr's > > > > testimonythere is no independent corroboration. From a scientific > > > > perspective, such self-reports remain inconclusive. But during the last > > > > few decades, some self-reports of NDErs have been independently > > > > corroborated by witnesses, such as that of Pam Reynolds. One of the > > > > best known of these corroborated veridical NDE perceptionsperceptions > > > > that can be proven to coincide with realityis the experience of a > > > > woman named Maria, whose case was first documented by her critical care > > > > social worker, Kimberly Clark. > > > > > > > > Maria was a migrant worker who had a severe heart attack while visiting > > > > friends in Seattle. She was rushed to Harborview Hospital and placed in > > > > the coronary care unit. A few days later, she had a cardiac arrest but > > > > was rapidly resuscitated. The following day, Clark visited her. Maria > > > > told Clark that during her cardiac arrest she was able to look down > > > > from the ceiling and watch the medical team at work on her body. At one > > > > point in this experience, said Maria, she found herself outside the > > > > hospital and spotted a tennis shoe on the ledge of the north side of > > > > the third floor of the building. She was able to provide several > > > > details regarding its appearance, including the observations that one > > > > of its laces was stuck underneath the heel and that the little toe area > > > > was worn. Maria wanted to know for sure whether she had "really" seen > > > > that shoe, and she begged Clark to try to locate it. > > > > > > > > Quite skeptical, Clark went to the location described by Mariaand > > > > found the tennis shoe. From the window of her hospital room, the > > > > details that Maria had recounted could not be discerned. But upon > > > > retrieval of the shoe, Clark confirmed Maria's observations. "The only > > > > way she could have had such a perspective," said Clark, "was if she had > > > > been floating right outside and at very close range to the tennis shoe. > > > > I retrieved the shoe and brought it back to Maria; it was very concrete > > > > evidence for me." > > > > > > > > This case is particularly impressive given that during cardiac arrest, > > > > the flow of blood to the brain is interrupted. When this happens, the > > > > brain's electrical activity (as measured with EEG) disappears after 10 > > > > to 20 seconds. In this state, a patient is deeply comatose. Because the > > > > brain structures mediating higher mental functions are severely > > > > impaired, such patients are expected to have no clear and lucid mental > > > > experiences that will be remembered. Nonetheless, studies conducted in > > > > the Netherlands, United Kingdom, and United States have revealed that > > > > approximately 15 percent of cardiac arrest survivors do report some > > > > recollection from the time when they were clinically dead. These > > > > studies indicate that consciousness, perceptions, thoughts, and > > > > feelings can be experienced during a period when the brain shows no > > > > measurable activity. > > > > > > > > NDEs experienced by people who do not have sight in everyday life are > > > > quite intriguing. In 1994, researchers Kenneth Ring and Sharon Cooper > > > > decided to undertake a search for cases of NDE-based perception in the > > > > blind. They reasoned that such cases would represent the ultimate > > > > demonstration of veridical perceptions during NDEs. If a blind person > > > > was able to report on verifiable events that took place when they were > > > > clinically dead, that would mean something real was occurring. They > > > > interviewed 31 individuals, of whom 14 were blind from birth. > > > > Twenty-one of the participants had had an NDE; the others had had OBEs > > > > only. Strikingly, the experiences they reported conform to the classic > > > > NDE pattern, whether they were born blind or had lost their sight in > > > > later life. The results of the study were published in 1997. Based on > > > > all the cases they investigated, Ring and Cooper concluded that what > > > > happens during an NDE affords another perspective to perceive reality > > > > that does not depend on the senses of the physical body. They proposed > > > > to call this other mode of perception mindsight. > > > > > > > > Despite corroborated reports, many materialist scientists cling to the > > > > notion that OBEs and NDEs are located in the brain. In 2002, > > > > neurologist Olaf Blanke and colleagues at the University Hospitals of > > > > Geneva and Lausanne in Switzerland described in the prestigious > > > > scientific journal Nature the strange occurrence that happened to a > > > > 43-year-old female patient with epilepsy. Because her seizures could > > > > not be controlled by medication alone, neurosurgery was being > > > > considered as the next step. The researchers implanted electrodes in > > > > her right temporal lobe to provide information about the localization > > > > and extent of the epileptogenic zonethe area of the brain that was > > > > causing the seizureswhich had to be surgically removed. Other > > > > electrodes were implanted to identify and localize, by means of > > > > electrical stimulation, the areas of the brain thatif removedwould > > > > result in loss of sensory capacities, linguistic ability, or even > > > > paralysis. Such a procedure is particularly critical to spare important > > > > brain areas that are adjacent to the epileptogenic zone. > > > > > > > > When they stimulated the angular gyrusa region of the brain in the > > > > parietal lobe that is thought to integrate sensory information related > > > > to vision, touch, and balance to give us a perception of our own > > > > bodiesthe patient reported seeing herself "lying in bed, from above, > > > > but I only see my legs and lower trunk." She described herself as > > > > "floating" near the ceiling. She also reported seeing her legs > > > > "becoming shorter." > > > > > > > > The article received global press coverage and created quite a > > > > commotion. The editors of Nature went so far as to declare triumphantly > > > > that as a result of this one studywhich involved only one patientthe > > > > part of the brain that can induce OBEs had been located. > > > > > > > > "It's another blow against those who believe that the mind and spirit > > > > are somehow separate from the brain," said psychologist Michael > > > > Shermer, director of the Skeptics Society, which seeks to debunk all > > > > kinds of paranormal claims. "In reality, all experience is derived from > > > > the brain." > > > > > > > > In another article published in 2004, Blanke and co-workers described > > > > six patients, of whom three had experienced an atypical and incomplete > > > > OBE. Four patients reported an autoscopythat is, they saw their own > > > > double from the vantage point of their own body. In this paper, the > > > > researchers describe an OBE as a temporary dysfunction of the junction > > > > of the temporal and parietal cortex. But, as Pim van Lommel noted, the > > > > abnormal bodily experiences described by Blanke and colleagues entail a > > > > false sense of reality. > > > > Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or > > > > are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! 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