Mike and Bill, It's all in my book on the nature of reality which I'm currently finishing up as we speak...
Edgar On May 25, 2013, at 10:47 AM, [email protected] wrote: > Bill!, > > I thought Edgar was correct on this point too, but put it down to my reading > of it late at night! > > Have you, or anyone else here, ever seen an attempt at creating a > representation of how this external reality of 'information forms' would > 'appear'? Merle's art springs to mind, as does Aboriginal art. My choice > would be in the form of vibrations, but I'm not an artist. Any ideas? > > Mike > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > From: Bill! <[email protected]>; > To: <[email protected]>; > Subject: Re: [Zen] New science is shedding light on what really happens > during out-of-body experiences > Sent: Sat, May 25, 2013 2:23:06 PM > > > Edgar, > > My bad! You're right, I meant solipsism. > > And you're right again, I do fail to recognize that there is an external > reality of empty information forms. I recognize that these forms are > dualistic illusions I create and project on reality. > > You're 2 for 2 tonight! (My night, your morning) > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > > > Bill, > > > > LOL! You are too funny. Trying to be rational but you don't know the > > difference between syllogism and solipsism! > > > > No wonder you are so opposed to rationality if you don't have any! > > :-) > > > > > > OK, now here's the answer to your question. > > > > External reality consists ONLY of empty evolving information forms. It's > > like software continuously running to compute the current form state of the > > world of forms. (NO, it's not the business software you are familiar with, > > it's REALITY software. You need to educate yourself on the general > > principles of computation and information theory a la Turing and others to > > understand this to understand what software actually is.) PS: Business > > software NAUSEATES ME TOO, but this is much much different, it's the basic > > logical rules of reality. > > > > Every being, humans and other organisms, all construct a model of that > > reality in their own heads. That is the world they think they live in. > > > > Thus the apparent bright colorful physical world we think we live in is an > > illusion of our minds. However it is BASE ON the empty information > > structure of external reality. If it wasn't we could neither function nor > > exist. > > > > THIS IS WHAT EVERY FRIGGING ENLIGHTENED PERSON SINCE THE VEDAS THROUGH > > BUDDHA THROUGH THE ZEN PATRIARCHS THROUGH DOGEN TO ME HAS SAID. > > > > If you can't understand it and deny it you deny Zen itself. > > > > The only other people in the world that share your solipsism that all forms > > are in your own head were Bishop Berkeley and a few inhabitants of mental > > wards... > > > > You correctly recognize that the world you live in IS a product of your own > > head, but you fail to recognize that there is an external reality of empty > > information forms it's based upon... > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 25, 2013, at 9:13 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > You wrote: "The world we think we live in is ENTIRELY A PRODUCT OF OUR > > > MIND." > > > > > > Gee, that kind of sounds like syllogism to me...;>) > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Varamtha, > > > > > > > > OBE's become very simple to understand once you understand that the > > > > mind generates its own reality. The world we think we live in is > > > > ENTIRELY A PRODUCT OF OUR MIND. > > > > > > > > Part of the structure of that simulated mental world is the mind > > > > placing the experience of the self INSIDE the physical body in the > > > > first place. That is a mentally constructed part of the illusion. > > > > > > > > When this is understood it's trivial to understand why the mind might > > > > want to relocate the experience of the self OUTSIDE the physical body > > > > when the physical body is in extreme distress. > > > > > > > > Self inside or outside of the physical body. EITHER WAY it's a > > > > constructed ILLUSION of mind. > > > > > > > > > > > > I had a strong OBE myself in Japan in the mountains of Iya district > > > > when the car I was in skidded towards the edge of very high cliff and > > > > ended up with the front bumper hanging over the edge. > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On May 25, 2013, at 7:37 AM, varamtha@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > New science is shedding light on what really happens during > > > > > out-of-body experiences -- with shocking results. > > > > > By Mario Beauregard > > > > > > > > > > http://www.salon.com/2012/04/21/near_death_explained/ > > > > > > > > > > This article was adapted from the new book "Brain Wars", from Harper > > > > > One. > > > > > > > > > > In 1991, Atlanta-based singer and songwriter Pam Reynolds felt > > > > > extremely dizzy, lost her ability to speak, and had difficulty moving > > > > > her body. A CAT scan showed that she had a giant artery aneurysm—a > > > > > grossly swollen blood vessel in the wall of her basilar artery, close > > > > > to the brain stem. If it burst, which could happen at any moment, it > > > > > would kill her. But the standard surgery to drain and repair it might > > > > > kill her too. > > > > > > > > > > With no other options, Pam turned to a last, desperate measure > > > > > offered by neurosurgeon Robert Spetzler at the Barrow Neurological > > > > > Institute in Phoenix, Arizona. Dr. Spetzler was a specialist and > > > > > pioneer in hypothermic cardiac arrest—a daring surgical procedure > > > > > nicknamed "Operation Standstill." Spetzler would bring Pam's body > > > > > down to a temperature so low that she was essentially dead. Her brain > > > > > would not function, but it would be able to survive longer without > > > > > oxygen at this temperature. The low temperature would also soften the > > > > > swollen blood vessels, allowing them to be operated on with less risk > > > > > of bursting. When the procedure was complete, the surgical team would > > > > > bring her back to a normal temperature before irreversible damage set > > > > > in. > > > > > > > > > > Essentially, Pam agreed to die in order to save her life—and in the > > > > > process had what is perhaps the most famous case of independent > > > > > corroboration of out of body experience (OBE) perceptions on record. > > > > > This case is especially important because cardiologist Michael Sabom > > > > > was able to obtain verification from medical personnel regarding > > > > > crucial details of the surgical intervention that Pam reported. > > > > > Here's what happened. > > > > > > > > > > Pam was brought into the operating room at 7:15 a.m., she was given > > > > > general anesthesia, and she quickly lost conscious awareness. At this > > > > > point, Spetzler and his team of more than 20 physicians, nurses, and > > > > > technicians went to work. They lubricated Pam's eyes to prevent > > > > > drying, and taped them shut. They attached EEG electrodes to monitor > > > > > the electrical activity of her cerebral cortex. They inserted small, > > > > > molded speakers into her ears and secured them with gauze and tape. > > > > > The speakers would emit repeated 100-decibel clicks—approximately the > > > > > noise produced by a speeding express train—eliminating outside sounds > > > > > and measuring the activity of her brainstem. > > > > > > > > > > At 8:40 a.m., the tray of surgical instruments was uncovered, and > > > > > Robert Spetzler began cutting through Pam's skull with a special > > > > > surgical saw that produced a noise similar to a dental drill. At this > > > > > moment, Pam later said, she felt herself "pop" out of her body and > > > > > hover above it, watching as doctors worked on her body. > > > > > > > > > > Although she no longer had use of her eyes and ears, she described > > > > > her observations in terms of her senses and perceptions. "I thought > > > > > the way they had my head shaved was very peculiar," she said. "I > > > > > expected them to take all of the hair, but they did not." She also > > > > > described the Midas Rex bone saw ("The saw thing that I hated the > > > > > sound of looked like an electric toothbrush and it had a dent in it … > > > > > ") and the dental-drill sound it made with considerable accuracy. > > > > > > > > > > Meanwhile, Spetzler was removing the outermost membrane of Pamela's > > > > > brain, cutting it open with scissors. At about the same time, a > > > > > female cardiac surgeon was attempting to locate the femoral artery in > > > > > Pam's right groin. Remarkably, Pam later claimed to remember a female > > > > > voice saying, "We have a problem. Her arteries are too small." And > > > > > then a male voice: "Try the other side." Medical records confirm this > > > > > conversation, yet Pam could not have heard them. > > > > > > > > > > The cardiac surgeon was right—Pam's blood vessels were indeed too > > > > > small to accept the abundant blood flow requested by the > > > > > cardiopulmonary bypass machine, so at 10:50 a.m., a tube was inserted > > > > > into Pam's left femoral artery and connected to the cardiopulmonary > > > > > bypass machine. The warm blood circulated from the artery into the > > > > > cylinders of the bypass machine, where it was cooled down before > > > > > being returned to her body. Her body temperature began to fall, and > > > > > at 11:05 a.m. Pam's heart stopped. Her EEG brain waves flattened into > > > > > total silence. A few minutes later, her brain stem became totally > > > > > unresponsive, and her body temperature fell to a sepulchral 60 > > > > > degrees Fahrenheit. At 11:25 a.m., the team tilted up the head of the > > > > > operating table, turned off the bypass machine, and drained the blood > > > > > from her body. Pamela Reynolds was clinically dead. > > > > > > > > > > At this point, Pam's out-of-body adventure transformed into a > > > > > near-death experience (NDE): She recalls floating out of the > > > > > operating room and traveling down a tunnel with a light. She saw > > > > > deceased relatives and friends, including her long-dead grandmother, > > > > > waiting at the end of this tunnel. She entered the presence of a > > > > > brilliant, wonderfully warm and loving light, and sensed that her > > > > > soul was part of God and that everything in existence was created > > > > > from the light (the breathing of God). But this extraordinary > > > > > experience ended abruptly, as Reynolds's deceased uncle led her back > > > > > to her body—a feeling she described as "plunging into a pool of ice." > > > > > > > > > > Meanwhile, in the operating room, the surgery had come to an end. > > > > > When all the blood had drained from Pam's brain, the aneurysm simply > > > > > collapsed and Spetzler clipped it off. Soon, the bypass machine was > > > > > turned on and warm blood was pumped back into her body. As her body > > > > > temperature started to increase, her brainsteam began to respond to > > > > > the clicking speakers in her ears and the EEG recorded electrical > > > > > activity in the cortex. The bypass machine was turned off at 12:32 > > > > > p.m. Pam's life had been restored, and she was taken to the recovery > > > > > room in stable condition at 2:10 p.m. > > > > > > > > > > Tales of otherworldly experiences have been part of human cultures > > > > > seemingly forever, but NDEs as such first came to broad public > > > > > attention in 1975 by way of American psychiatrist and philosopher > > > > > Raymond Moody's popular book Life After Life. He presented more than > > > > > 100 case studies of people who experienced vivid mental experiences > > > > > close to death or during "clinical death" and were subsequently > > > > > revived to tell the tale. Their experiences were remarkably similar, > > > > > and Moody coined the term NDE to refer to this phenomenon. The book > > > > > was popular and controversial, and scientific investigation of NDEs > > > > > began soon after its publication with the founding, in 1978, of the > > > > > International Association for Near Death Studies (IANDS)—the first > > > > > organization in the world devoted to the scientific study of NDEs and > > > > > their relationship to mind and consciousness. > > > > > > > > > > NDEs are the vivid, realistic, and often deeply life-changing > > > > > experiences of men, women, and children who have been physiologically > > > > > or psychologically close to death. They can be evoked by cardiac > > > > > arrest and coma caused by brain damage, intoxication, or asphyxia. > > > > > They can also happen following such events as electrocution, > > > > > complications from surgery, or severe blood loss during or after a > > > > > delivery. They can even occur as the result of accidents or illnesses > > > > > in which individuals genuinely fear they might die. Surveys conducted > > > > > in the United States and Germany suggest that approximately 4.2 > > > > > percent of the population has reported an NDE. It has also been > > > > > estimated that more than 25 million individuals worldwide have had an > > > > > NDE in the past 50 years. > > > > > > > > > > People from all walks of life and belief systems have this > > > > > experience. Studies indicate that the experience of an NDE is not > > > > > influenced by gender, race, socioeconomic status, or level of > > > > > education. Although NDEs are sometimes presented as religious > > > > > experiences, this seems to be a matter of individual perception. > > > > > Furthermore, researchers have found no relationship between religion > > > > > and the experience of an NDE. That is, it did not matter whether the > > > > > people recruited in those studies were Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, > > > > > Hindu, Jewish, Buddhist, atheist, or agnostic. > > > > > > > > > > Although the details differ, NDEs are characterized by a number of > > > > > core features. Perhaps the most vivid is the OBE: the sense of having > > > > > left one's body and of watching events going on around one's body or, > > > > > occasionally, at some distant physical location. During OBEs, > > > > > near-death experiencers (NDErs) are often astonished to discover that > > > > > they have retained consciousness, perception, lucid thinking, memory, > > > > > emotions, and their sense of personal identity. If anything, these > > > > > processes are heightened: Thinking is vivid; hearing is sharp; and > > > > > vision can extend to 360 degrees. NDErs claim that without physical > > > > > bodies, they are able to penetrate through walls and doors and > > > > > project themselves wherever they want. They frequently report the > > > > > ability to read people's thoughts. > > > > > > > > > > The effects of NDEs on the experience are intense, overwhelming, and > > > > > real. A number of studies conducted in United States, Western > > > > > European countries, and Australia have shown that most NDErs are > > > > > profoundly and positively transformed by the experience. One woman > > > > > says, "I was completely altered after the accident. I was another > > > > > person, according to those who lived near me. I was happy, laughing, > > > > > appreciated little things, joked, smiled a lot, became friends with > > > > > everyone … so completely different than I was before!" > > > > > > > > > > However different their personalities before the NDE, experiencers > > > > > tend to share a similar psychological profile after the NDE. Indeed, > > > > > their beliefs, values, behaviors, and worldviews seem quite > > > > > comparable afterward. Importantly, these psychological and behavioral > > > > > changes are not the kind of changes one would expect if this > > > > > experience were a hallucination. And, as noted NDE researcher Pim van > > > > > Lommel and his colleagues have demonstrated, these changes become > > > > > more apparent with the passage of time. > > > > > > > > > > Some skeptics legitimately argue that the main problem with reports > > > > > of OBE perceptions is that they often rest uniquely on the NDEr's > > > > > testimony—there is no independent corroboration. From a scientific > > > > > perspective, such self-reports remain inconclusive. But during the > > > > > last few decades, some self-reports of NDErs have been independently > > > > > corroborated by witnesses, such as that of Pam Reynolds. One of the > > > > > best known of these corroborated veridical NDE > > > > > perceptions—perceptions that can be proven to coincide with > > > > > reality—is the experience of a woman named Maria, whose case was > > > > > first documented by her critical care social worker, Kimberly Clark. > > > > > > > > > > Maria was a migrant worker who had a severe heart attack while > > > > > visiting friends in Seattle. She was rushed to Harborview Hospital > > > > > and placed in the coronary care unit. A few days later, she had a > > > > > cardiac arrest but was rapidly resuscitated. The following day, Clark > > > > > visited her. Maria told Clark that during her cardiac arrest she was > > > > > able to look down from the ceiling and watch the medical team at work > > > > > on her body. At one point in this experience, said Maria, she found > > > > > herself outside the hospital and spotted a tennis shoe on the ledge > > > > > of the north side of the third floor of the building. She was able to > > > > > provide several details regarding its appearance, including the > > > > > observations that one of its laces was stuck underneath the heel and > > > > > that the little toe area was worn. Maria wanted to know for sure > > > > > whether she had "really" seen that shoe, and she begged Clark to try > > > > > to locate it. > > > > > > > > > > Quite skeptical, Clark went to the location described by Maria—and > > > > > found the tennis shoe. From the window of her hospital room, the > > > > > details that Maria had recounted could not be discerned. But upon > > > > > retrieval of the shoe, Clark confirmed Maria's observations. "The > > > > > only way she could have had such a perspective," said Clark, "was if > > > > > she had been floating right outside and at very close range to the > > > > > tennis shoe. I retrieved the shoe and brought it back to Maria; it > > > > > was very concrete evidence for me." > > > > > > > > > > This case is particularly impressive given that during cardiac > > > > > arrest, the flow of blood to the brain is interrupted. When this > > > > > happens, the brain's electrical activity (as measured with EEG) > > > > > disappears after 10 to 20 seconds. In this state, a patient is deeply > > > > > comatose. Because the brain structures mediating higher mental > > > > > functions are severely impaired, such patients are expected to have > > > > > no clear and lucid mental experiences that will be remembered. > > > > > Nonetheless, studies conducted in the Netherlands, United Kingdom, > > > > > and United States have revealed that approximately 15 percent of > > > > > cardiac arrest survivors do report some recollection from the time > > > > > when they were clinically dead. These studies indicate that > > > > > consciousness, perceptions, thoughts, and feelings can be experienced > > > > > during a period when the brain shows no measurable activity. > > > > > > > > > > NDEs experienced by people who do not have sight in everyday life are > > > > > quite intriguing. In 1994, researchers Kenneth Ring and Sharon Cooper > > > > > decided to undertake a search for cases of NDE-based perception in > > > > > the blind. They reasoned that such cases would represent the ultimate > > > > > demonstration of veridical perceptions during NDEs. If a blind person > > > > > was able to report on verifiable events that took place when they > > > > > were clinically dead, that would mean something real was occurring. > > > > > They interviewed 31 individuals, of whom 14 were blind from birth. > > > > > Twenty-one of the participants had had an NDE; the others had had > > > > > OBEs only. Strikingly, the experiences they reported conform to the > > > > > classic NDE pattern, whether they were born blind or had lost their > > > > > sight in later life. The results of the study were published in 1997. > > > > > Based on all the cases they investigated, Ring and Cooper concluded > > > > > that what happens during an NDE affords another perspective to > > > > > perceive reality that does not depend on the senses of the physical > > > > > body. They proposed to call this other mode of perception mindsight. > > > > > > > > > > Despite corroborated reports, many materialist scientists cling to > > > > > the notion that OBEs and NDEs are located in the brain. In 2002, > > > > > neurologist Olaf Blanke and colleagues at the University Hospitals of > > > > > Geneva and Lausanne in Switzerland described in the prestigious > > > > > scientific journal Nature the strange occurrence that happened to a > > > > > 43-year-old female patient with epilepsy. Because her seizures could > > > > > not be controlled by medication alone, neurosurgery was being > > > > > considered as the next step. The researchers implanted electrodes in > > > > > her right temporal lobe to provide information about the localization > > > > > and extent of the epileptogenic zone—the area of the brain that was > > > > > causing the seizures—which had to be surgically removed. Other > > > > > electrodes were implanted to identify and localize, by means of > > > > > electrical stimulation, the areas of the brain that—if removed—would > > > > > result in loss of sensory capacities, linguistic ability, or even > > > > > paralysis. Such a procedure is particularly critical to spare > > > > > important brain areas that are adjacent to the epileptogenic zone. > > > > > > > > > > When they stimulated the angular gyrus—a region of the brain in the > > > > > parietal lobe that is thought to integrate sensory information > > > > > related to vision, touch, and balance to give us a perception of our > > > > > own bodies—the patient reported seeing herself "lying in bed, from > > > > > above, but I only see my legs and lower trunk." She described herself > > > > > as "floating" near the ceiling. She also reported seeing her legs > > > > > "becoming shorter." > > > > > > > > > > The article received global press coverage and created quite a > > > > > commotion. The editors of Nature went so far as to declare > > > > > triumphantly that as a result of this one study—which involved only > > > > > one patient—the part of the brain that can induce OBEs had been > > > > > located. > > > > > > > > > > "It's another blow against those who believe that the mind and spirit > > > > > are somehow separate from the brain," said psychologist Michael > > > > > Shermer, director of the Skeptics Society, which seeks to debunk all > > > > > kinds of paranormal claims. "In reality, all experience is derived > > > > > from the brain." > > > > > > > > > > In another article published in 2004, Blanke and co-workers described > > > > > six patients, of whom three had experienced an atypical and > > > > > incomplete OBE. Four patients reported an autoscopy—that is, they saw > > > > > their own double from the vantage point of their own body. In this > > > > > paper, the researchers describe an OBE as a temporary dysfunction of > > > > > the junction of the temporal and parietal cortex. But, as Pim van > > > > > Lommel noted, the abnormal bodily experiences described by Blanke and > > > > > colleagues entail a false sense of reality. > > > > > Sent from BlackBerry® on Airtel > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ > > > > > > > > > > Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or > > > > > are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
