Siska, See my reply to Bill where I explain..
Edgar On May 26, 2013, at 6:12 AM, [email protected] wrote: > Hi Bill, > > > The bottom line is I claim all thoughts are illusory and Edgar claims they > > are part of reality. > > If I understand correctly, you said, all thoughts are illusory because > 'thoughts' to you is how we perceive the reality. And all is illusory because > we are still trapped in duality. > > Also, if I understand correctly, Edgar said, whatever is in our head, that is > what it is. Whether or not they are illusory, they are what they are, the > reality. > > I think the two of you are not talking about exactly the same thing.... > > Siska > > From: "Bill!" <[email protected]> > Sender: [email protected] > Date: Sun, 26 May 2013 09:28:32 -0000 > To: <[email protected]> > ReplyTo: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [Zen] Nice Quote > > > Siska, > > No, unfortunately not. > > Edgar does this all the time. He says something that seems to agree with what > I've stated but then slips in one word that corrupts what I have stated. In > this case the word is 'forms'. > > Edgar believes forms (structure, rationality) exists independently of us and > we perceive it with our intellect. I believe we create the structures and > superimpose it upon our experiences to create our perceptions. > > The bottom line is I claim all thoughts are illusory and Edgar claims they > are part of reality. > > We have other disagreements but I still think most of them are semantic, but > in some cases they do indeed to be fundamental. > > Other than that all is well...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], siska_cen@... wrote: > > > > Yeeaaay, Edgar and Bill are in total agreement, finally! > > > > :-) > > Siska > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> > > Sender: [email protected] > > Date: Sat, 25 May 2013 07:55:25 > > To: <[email protected]> > > Reply-To: [email protected] > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Nice Quote > > > > Bill, > > > > Total agreement as stated. > > > > Just incorporate what I said yesterday that these forms exist in reality > > instead of in your nutty head and you'll have the whole meaning.. > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > On May 25, 2013, at 3:41 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > > > > Siska, > > > > > > As you'll soon find out Edgar and I have almost the polar opposite > > > opinion on just about everything. In fact he'll probably disagree with > > > this statement ;>) and will certainly jump all over the rest of this post. > > > > > > Rumi's poem/metaphor was: > > > > > > I looked for my self, > > > But my self was gone. > > > The boundaries of my being > > > Had disappeared in the sea. > > > Waves broke. Awareness rose again. > > > And a voice returned me to myself. > > > It always happens like this. > > > Sea turns on itself and foams, > > > And with every foaming bit another body. > > > Another being takes form. > > > And when the sea sends word, > > > Each foaming body melts back to ocean-breath. > > > - Rumi > > > > > > I can just imagine Rumi standing on the beach watching the waves form, > > > come rhythmically in, crash upon the beach and then spend themselves by > > > slipping back into the sea - losing himself in Buddha Nature and later > > > composing this poem. My interpretation of it is: > > > > > > I looked for my self, > > > But my self was gone. > > > The boundaries of my being > > > Had disappeared in the sea. > > > > > > Rumi is describing the holistic experience of Buddha Nature. The illusion > > > of dualism has vanished and his illusion of 'self' as something > > > independent and apart from everything else has vanished with it. It has > > > vanished into sea which is a metaphor for emptiness. > > > > > > Waves broke. Awareness rose again. > > > And a voice returned me to myself. > > > It always happens like this. > > > > > > Dualism returns. His holistic experience of Buddha Nature has been > > > interrupted and his illusion of self has returned. This alternation > > > between holism and dualism, between emptiness and self happens regularly, > > > much like the waves surging rhythmically upon the beach. > > > > > > Sea turns on itself and foams, > > > And with every foaming bit another body. > > > Another being takes form. > > > > > > Now that he is abiding in dualism all other illusions, perceptions, > > > thoughts, etc..., of all other (10,000) things appear. > > > > > > And when the sea sends word, > > > Each foaming body melts back to ocean-breath. > > > > > > But when he returns again to Buddha Nature all these illusions melt back > > > into emptiness. > > > > > > That's my reading of this anyway. It will be interesting to see what > > > Edgar comes up with although I think I could almost write it for him... > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], siska_cen@ wrote: > > > > > > > > Hi Bill, > > > > > > > > I followed until: "Waves broke". > > > > > > > > The rest is a bit confusing. It's as if the 'self' is back. > > > > > > > > Siska > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: "Bill!" BillSmart@ > > > > Sender: [email protected] > > > > Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 10:04:29 > > > > To: [email protected] > > > > Reply-To: [email protected] > > > > Subject: [Zen] Nice Quote > > > > > > > > > > > > ..Bill! > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
