Edgar, You talk of two realizations:
[Edgar] "...at some point I suddenly realized this was the heartbeat of the sleeping Buddha, the Buddha sleeping in everything around me." This 'realization' is definitely one which employs reason, or at least is communicated with a metaphorical statement employing reason. Then you go on to say: [Edgar] "At that point I had a sudden wonderful realization and Buddha awoke!" I assume this second 'realization' is the realization of Buddha Nature. Are those correct assumptions? ...Bill! --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > Bill, > > Don't be dense. I'm speaking of realization of Buddha Nature.. > > Edgar > > > > On Jun 16, 2013, at 9:07 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > Edgar, > > > > I assume you're using term 'realization' in some non-zen sense, like 'I > > felt a chill, looked down and 'realized' I was not wearing any pants'; and > > not referring to 'realization' (or what I would call 'experience') of > > Buddha Nature. > > > > ...Bill! > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > Mike, > > > > > > Good question, but as with most if not all realizations it DID EMPLY > > > REASON in several respects. The understanding that the drum was the > > > heartbeat of Buddha was an understanding of reason. The understanding > > > that Buddha nature exists sleeping in all things is an understanding of > > > reason. That reason enabled the path to the actual realization of the > > > sleeping Buddha awakening.... > > > > > > Reason and understanding are always essential to take one on the path to > > > the point that realization occurs... > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 16, 2013, at 3:50 AM, uerusuboyo@ wrote: > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > > > Thank you for sharing that personal experience. It reminds me of this > > > > haiku by Buson : > > > > > > > > The thwack of an ax > > > > in the heart of a thicket > > > > and woodpecker's tat-tats! > > > > > > > > Of course, it could be written about any country where there are > > > > woodpeckers, but if you've been to Japan, then you can understand the > > > > feeling of a Japanese summer in the country that it evokes. > > > > > > > > Just one point tho. Your awakening experience was a run of the mill, > > > > garden variety Zen awakening (I don't mean that in a trivial way). It > > > > occurred spontaneously without employing reason or logic (you didn't > > > > even mention "ontological energy" ; )). So why do you now argue that > > > > such break-thru's can only happen after using rationality and > > > > intellectual reasoning? > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > > > > > > From: Edgar Owen <edgarowen@>; > > > > To: <[email protected]>; > > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Experience the light > > > > Sent: Sat, Jun 15, 2013 7:21:34 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > All, > > > > > > > > Actually this Dharma Drum reference reminds me of one of my realization > > > > experiences .... > > > > > > > > One night during the period I was walking through Japan I spent the > > > > night sleeping in a field of weeds outside a Zen temple. Very early in > > > > the morning way before sunrise a large drum began a continuous slow ba > > > > Boom, ba Boom, ba Boom... This went on for some time but at some point > > > > I suddenly realized this was the heartbeat of the sleeping Buddha, the > > > > Buddha sleeping in everything around me. At that point I had a sudden > > > > wonderful realization and Buddha awoke! > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > On Jun 15, 2013, at 2:46 PM, Edgar Owen wrote: > > > > > > > > > Joe, > > > > > > > > > > What's Dharma Drum? > > > > > > > > > > Could this be a depiction of it? I was wondering who this guy was.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <gandhara-11463.jpg> > > > > > On Jun 15, 2013, at 1:15 PM, Joe wrote: > > > > > > > > > >> Donald, > > > > >> > > > > >> All those things you say are correct, and can be confirmed by others > > > > >> besides me, too. > > > > >> > > > > >> They are not a good basis nor motivation for the Bodhisattva path, > > > > >> however. > > > > >> > > > > >> A Bodhisattva, to be a Bodhisattva, knows that he/she is practicing > > > > >> in order to open the heart of Compassion. > > > > >> > > > > >> To practice for light, etc., is the practice of Outer Paths. It is > > > > >> not really Chan. > > > > >> > > > > >> I think you can find true Chan on Taiwan!: you are in a good place > > > > >> for it. How about Dharma Drum. > > > > >> > > > > >> --Joe > > > > >> > > > > >>> <chan.jmjm@> wrote: > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Dear All, > > > > >>> > > > > >>> If you believe the light inside all of us is the key to > > > > >>> enlightenment, then please read on... > > > > >>> > > > > >>> All I am asking you to TRY for the last eight years is the > > > > >>> following: > > > > >>> > > > > >>> 1. Focus on the path of your belly breathing. > > > > >>> 2. Focus on your chakras. > > > > >>> 3. Focus and guide your chi along your chi channels. > > > > >>> 4. Do this everyday for one hour minimum. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> One day, you will find all of your chakra merged into one and all > > > > >>> three > > > > >>> chi channels merged into one. You become one ball of chi. Due to > > > > >>> all > > > > >>> the focusing, your mind is empty, you see light emitting from all > > > > >>> of > > > > >>> your chakras. You enter into a realm of light. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Now you'll possess the power to heal as well as the wisdom for each > > > > >>> encounter without the need to think. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> That's all I am suggesting for you to try to experience. > > > > >>> > > > > >>> Thank you for your attention, > > > > >>> JM > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------------ Current Book Discussion: any Zen book that you recently have read or are reading! Talk about it today!Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/ <*> Your email settings: Individual Email | Traditional <*> To change settings online go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Zen_Forum/join (Yahoo! ID required) <*> To change settings via email: [email protected] [email protected] <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [email protected] <*> Your use of Yahoo! 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