Yes, you are correct. Two different meanings of the word... Edgar
On Jun 16, 2013, at 9:40 AM, Bill! wrote: > Edgar, > > You talk of two realizations: > > [Edgar] "...at some point I suddenly realized this was the heartbeat of the > sleeping Buddha, the Buddha sleeping in everything around me." > > This 'realization' is definitely one which employs reason, or at least is > communicated with a metaphorical statement employing reason. > > Then you go on to say: > > [Edgar] "At that point I had a sudden wonderful realization and Buddha awoke!" > > I assume this second 'realization' is the realization of Buddha Nature. > > Are those correct assumptions? > > ...Bill! > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@...> wrote: > > > > Bill, > > > > Don't be dense. I'm speaking of realization of Buddha Nature.. > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > On Jun 16, 2013, at 9:07 AM, Bill! wrote: > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > I assume you're using term 'realization' in some non-zen sense, like 'I > > > felt a chill, looked down and 'realized' I was not wearing any pants'; > > > and not referring to 'realization' (or what I would call 'experience') of > > > Buddha Nature. > > > > > > ...Bill! > > > > > > --- In [email protected], Edgar Owen <edgarowen@> wrote: > > > > > > > > Mike, > > > > > > > > Good question, but as with most if not all realizations it DID EMPLY > > > > REASON in several respects. The understanding that the drum was the > > > > heartbeat of Buddha was an understanding of reason. The understanding > > > > that Buddha nature exists sleeping in all things is an understanding of > > > > reason. That reason enabled the path to the actual realization of the > > > > sleeping Buddha awakening.... > > > > > > > > Reason and understanding are always essential to take one on the path > > > > to the point that realization occurs... > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 16, 2013, at 3:50 AM, uerusuboyo@ wrote: > > > > > > > > > Edgar, > > > > > > > > > > Thank you for sharing that personal experience. It reminds me of this > > > > > haiku by Buson : > > > > > > > > > > The thwack of an ax > > > > > in the heart of a thicket > > > > > and woodpecker's tat-tats! > > > > > > > > > > Of course, it could be written about any country where there are > > > > > woodpeckers, but if you've been to Japan, then you can understand the > > > > > feeling of a Japanese summer in the country that it evokes. > > > > > > > > > > Just one point tho. Your awakening experience was a run of the mill, > > > > > garden variety Zen awakening (I don't mean that in a trivial way). It > > > > > occurred spontaneously without employing reason or logic (you didn't > > > > > even mention "ontological energy" ; )). So why do you now argue that > > > > > such break-thru's can only happen after using rationality and > > > > > intellectual reasoning? > > > > > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Sent from Yahoo! Mail for iPad > > > > > > > > > > From: Edgar Owen <edgarowen@>; > > > > > To: <[email protected]>; > > > > > Subject: Re: [Zen] Re: Experience the light > > > > > Sent: Sat, Jun 15, 2013 7:21:34 PM > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > All, > > > > > > > > > > Actually this Dharma Drum reference reminds me of one of my > > > > > realization experiences .... > > > > > > > > > > One night during the period I was walking through Japan I spent the > > > > > night sleeping in a field of weeds outside a Zen temple. Very early > > > > > in the morning way before sunrise a large drum began a continuous > > > > > slow ba Boom, ba Boom, ba Boom... This went on for some time but at > > > > > some point I suddenly realized this was the heartbeat of the sleeping > > > > > Buddha, the Buddha sleeping in everything around me. At that point I > > > > > had a sudden wonderful realization and Buddha awoke! > > > > > > > > > > Edgar > > > > > > > > > > On Jun 15, 2013, at 2:46 PM, Edgar Owen wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Joe, > > > > > > > > > > > > What's Dharma Drum? > > > > > > > > > > > > Could this be a depiction of it? I was wondering who this guy > > > > > > was.... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > <gandhara-11463.jpg> > > > > > > On Jun 15, 2013, at 1:15 PM, Joe wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> Donald, > > > > > >> > > > > > >> All those things you say are correct, and can be confirmed by > > > > > >> others besides me, too. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> They are not a good basis nor motivation for the Bodhisattva path, > > > > > >> however. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> A Bodhisattva, to be a Bodhisattva, knows that he/she is > > > > > >> practicing in order to open the heart of Compassion. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> To practice for light, etc., is the practice of Outer Paths. It is > > > > > >> not really Chan. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> I think you can find true Chan on Taiwan!: you are in a good place > > > > > >> for it. How about Dharma Drum. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> --Joe > > > > > >> > > > > > >>> <chan.jmjm@> wrote: > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Dear All, > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> If you believe the light inside all of us is the key to > > > > > >>> enlightenment, then please read on... > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> All I am asking you to TRY for the last eight years is the > > > > > >>> following: > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> 1. Focus on the path of your belly breathing. > > > > > >>> 2. Focus on your chakras. > > > > > >>> 3. Focus and guide your chi along your chi channels. > > > > > >>> 4. Do this everyday for one hour minimum. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> One day, you will find all of your chakra merged into one and all > > > > > >>> three > > > > > >>> chi channels merged into one. You become one ball of chi. Due to > > > > > >>> all > > > > > >>> the focusing, your mind is empty, you see light emitting from all > > > > > >>> of > > > > > >>> your chakras. You enter into a realm of light. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Now you'll possess the power to heal as well as the wisdom for > > > > > >>> each > > > > > >>> encounter without the need to think. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> That's all I am suggesting for you to try to experience. > > > > > >>> > > > > > >>> Thank you for your attention, > > > > > >>> JM > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >
