Hi Alex --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Alex Bunard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm only questioning some practices that many Zen > people I know suggest. Like, mostly to take something > for granted. Whatever it is, you must destroy it and > rebuild it anew in this very moment. Not a trace of > anything should be carried over as a residual habit or > wisdom. That, to me, is what Zen is all about. I find it relatively easier to believe you on what you say about Madhyamika than on what you say about Zen. After all, you've spent 22 years with Madhyamika but very little time on Zen, a fair assumption, I hope? But the more important reason that I can't buy your version of Zen is that what you have been saying so far is very, very different (in fact quite contrary) from what I've heard from the Zen masters/roshis that I've personally known or read about.
The following is an excerpt from Maezumi Roshi's book, Appreciate Your Life: The Essence of Zen Practice: "In his Universal Promotion of the Principles of Zazen (Fukanzazengi), Dogen Zenji writes, 'Think of not-thinking. How do you think of not-thinking? Non-thinking. This in itself is the essential art of zazen.' In other words, penetrate into one point, into the nondual state. The way to realize yourself one hundred percent is to penetrate into samadhi, the state of nonthinking. As long as we remain within the confines of the thinking mind, we can't experience the state of nonthinking. If we can't experience nonthinking, we will not understand what our life truly is. Please realize this for yourself. Just sit! Just-sitting is perhaps the most difficult thing to do. For in order to just-sit, we have to forget the self. What does that mean? There are no thoughts because there is no thinker. Instead, we are the thoughts that come up. There are no bird songs because there are no concepts of bird songs. Instead, we are those sounds. In the same way we are the raindrops, we are the thunder and the lightning. In sitting, the whole universe is revealed and manifested." The Zen school which I follow, Master Seung Sahn's Kwan Um School of Zen, also teaches pretty much the same thing, i.e. nonthinking. Several friends of mine who are very experienced students of Yamada Koun Roshi (Aitken Roshi's teacher) tell me that nonthinking is also their essential teaching. Master Sheng Yen said, "If you let go of every object of thought, you will be instinguishable from everything, and you will disappear." So four highly established and creditable Zen lineages (two Japanese, one Korean, one Chinese) teach essentially nonthinking. And Rinzai/Lin Chi's teacher Huang Po says, "The wise eschews thoughts but not phenomena. The ignorant eschews phenomena but not thoughts." And outside of Zen, even Dzogchen (the highest teaching in Tibetan Buddhism), Ramana Maharshi, Osho, etc, also teach nonthinking. This is of course not saying that thinking is completely useless. Just that before we are enlightened, thinking (and its construct of ego) controls us. But after one becomes enlightened, then thinking becomes our servant and can be used compassionately and free from attachment. You are up against Huang Po, Dogen, Maezumi, Yamada Koun, Seung Sahn, Sheng Yen, Dzogchen, Ramana Maharshi, Osho. So, I'm sorry Alex, I can't buy your version of Zen. > The seed of Buddha-nature is just another > superstitious concept. There is no such thing. Please give yourself thirty blows, the Buddha said everything has Buddha-nature. Thanks once again for your insights. wai ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> $9.95 domain names from Yahoo!. Register anything. http://us.click.yahoo.com/J8kdrA/y20IAA/yQLSAA/S27xlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZenForum/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
