Re: [Zen] Goats vs. Sheep

[Kathleen Knight]

Funny, when my daughter was a teenager and I would discipline her, she referred to it as "being grounded."  I, however, always insisted that she was "under protection." <smile> Kathleen ----- Original Message ----- From: jayryunen To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 23, 2004 9:04 PM Subject: Re: [Zen] Goats vs. Sheep --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "zenmonk genryu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]...> wrote: > I'd say that it was likely there were some additional rules for women, as > the Buddha would have been concerned that the Bhikkuni's could not be > faulted in terms of their practice relative to men, in a society that was > overwhelmingly patriarchal. It's interesting that he was willing to > establish the Bhikkuni order and allow women to ordain despite that, and > despite the fact that he considered it would shorten the life span of the > Dharma as it were. I've read that that was probably a later addition as well. > The rules that in effect relegate Bhikkunis to a lower > position than Bhikku's are later accretions. There is certainly no evidence > that the Buddha was vulnerable to 'to societal conventions' as he was more > often than not quite clear in his opposition to any social conventions that > went against the Dharma, such as cast, the idea of a soul, reincarnation and > so on. I agree that Shakyamuni was not vulnerable to convention, but he was mindful of it. So much of the Vinaya has to do with how the ordained sangha is perceived by the community. And many of the rule differences between men and women pertain to safety as well. When one considers the plight of women today in India, what with dowery murders and wife burnings, is it any wonder Buddha put bhikshunnis under the protection of bhikshus? In our own time, women in India have been commited to mental hospitals for wishing to be ordained. There is a wide disparity between India and the US. It is a current topic of much debate and discussion on how to follow the Vinaya for those who have taken full vows. However, in Japanese Zen, we are not bound by the Vinaya, but by the 16 precepts. So we are in a position to be informed by the Vinaya, and not oppressed by it. Blessings, Ryunen Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right  Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right  Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZenForum/   To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED]   Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.