Hey Guy, Thanks for your excellent comments. I agree with everything you've said.
Here is another thing I'd like to ask you. The Buddha once said: "People may argue with me, but I do not argue with them." What (if anything) do you get out of that saying? Alex --- ventouxboy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- Hey Alex, thanks for the wisdom. So let me see > if I clearly > understand you. Your vision of Zen is based on > concentration and > observing phenomena, which I'm assuming ties into > the recent threads > of detachment. To me, when you say observing > phenomena, it implies > observing something for what it is without applying > judgement or > opinion, which is what I consider objectivity. > > I applaude your comments on the prepackaged, > "feel good" ideas > that are marketed as spirituality. You're very > right, too many > people seek the easiest road possible and resign > their fates to > somone else's ideas. Undeniably a recipe for > disaster. The search > for truth, however you define it, is often painful > and sometimes > very unpalatable; however, speaking for myself, I > would rather > swallow the bitter pill of truth than the nectar of > lies. That, to > me, is the only way to see things as they are, not > how we want them > to be. Which, corect me if I'm wrong, kind of ties > back into your > remark of observing phenomena. > > So you ask why attachment to things is "bad". > Maybe I'm naive to > the question, but it seems pretty straightforward. > The basic pitfall > I see to attachment is that it's seeking happiness > outside of > yourself. I once read that a Buddhist needs nothing > more than a > bowl, a spoon, and a robe. A bowl and spoon to feed > themselves and a > robe to clothe themselves, for these cover the > shortcomings of the > human form; hunger and sensitivity to climate. If > you truly need > more than that, I don't think you'll ever find > yourself, and how can > you know true happiness? Ralph Waldo Emerson once > said, "Simplicity, > simplicity, simplicity". > > The other issue I see with attachments is that > the more you have, > the more your mind devotes to them. The more you > devote to them, the > question becomes "Who is master and who is slave?". > > Again, I would like to thank you for your > comments, Alex. I grew > up in rural Montana when I first learned of Buddhism > and Zen(no Zen > groups there, had to keep it hidden for various > reasons), so this is > my first opportunity to compare notes. Guy :) > > [email protected], Alex Bunard > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > --- ventouxboy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > ---Interesting you don't believe in > enlightenment. I > > > understand the > > > concept of Zen seperate from it, as a philosophy > of > > > living, but then > > > why meditate or ponder koans? Isn't the purpose > of > > > these to free the > > > mind from barriers, which is what I see > > > enlightenment as. > > > > > > Now you've whetted my intellectual curiosity. > So > > > what is your > > > vision of Zen, in what way does it benefit your > > > life? > > > > > > Thanks for the feedback Alex, I will always > > > appreciate a different > > > viewpoint, it's how we learn, Guy.:) > > > > Hey Guy, > > > > I'm in a bit of a rush now, as my course is about > to > > start in 20 minutes. I'll see what I can squeeze > for > > now, and then maybe give you something more cogent > > tomorrow. How's that? Deal? > > > > I always like to put Zen in the context. Forgive > me if > > this is old news to you, but I'd like to reiterate > > that 'Zen' is a Japanese word which is a > translation > > of the Chinese word 'Chan' which is a translation > of > > the Sanskrit word 'Dhyana'. Now the buck stops > here! > > What does Dhyana mean? Dhyana means concentration. > > > > Concentration on what? On examining phenomena. > > > > Most Buddhist practitioners I know, if asked what > is > > the most important thing one needs to do in order > to > > realize enlightenment, would say that it's to get > rid > > of attachments. > > > > But when we examine attachments carefully (i.e. > when > > we concentrate on them utilizing dhyana), we don't > > find anything particularly objectionable and bad > about > > them. So, why should we abandon them? Why would > > attachments be any worse than non-attachments? > > > > Actually, to be perfectly honest here, pretty much > > nobody ever examines these things. Let's face it, > we > > all take them for granted, simply because we read > > about them in some book, or someone told us to do > so. > > > > But you see, this is the worst part, the fact that > no > > one examines anything. Everyone is looking only > for > > instant gratification. So: > > > > abandon attachments == attain enlightenment > > > > Simple as that. And we're done! > > > > Most people need pithy slogans, simplistic > formulas > > (like the one above), and such. No one wants to > > perform the real work that is absolutely necessary > in > > order for them to wake up. > > > > Zen is being sold nowadays as this quick and easy > high > > road to satori. You don't have to know anything > about > > the Buddha's teaching, just come and sit with us, > and > > bingo! you'll get enlightened. What's more, > expending > > any effort to learn about the Buddha's teaching > will > > only make things worse for you. So, kill the > Buddha! > > > > What I'd like to ask all of you here is to try and > > explain why do you think that attachment should be > > regarded as bad? In other words, what could > possibly > > be wrong with attachment? Or, conversely, why do > you > > think it's not bad? > > > > Then I'll return tomorrow and explain myself. But > for > > now, I'd have to excuse myself. > > > > Thanks. > > > > Alex > > > > > > ===== > > No karma was produced during the composition of > this letter > > > > __________________________________________________ > > Do You Yahoo!? > > Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam > protection around > > http://mail.yahoo.com > > > > ===== No karma was produced during the composition of this letter __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail - Easier than ever with enhanced search. Learn more. http://info.mail.yahoo.com/mail_250 ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Would you Help a Child in need? It�s easier than you think. 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