Hi Francisco I suppose that the idea of "absolute nullity" is disturbing to some. While the idea of "dormant, unmanifest state" may be disturbing to others. :)
Here is a section of the Fire Sutta on this very use of the fire simile. http://www.centrebouddhisteparis.org/En_Anglais/Buddha/Fire_sutta/fire_sutta.html So what say you Vaccha, if a fire was burning before you, would you know it? Indeed I would, Gotama. And if someone were to ask you, 'on account of what does this fire burn', how would you reply Vaccha, answer just as you see fit, in any way you wish. I would say that this fire burns on account of sticks and grass, Gotama. And if this fire burning before you was to be extinguished Vaccha, would you know it? Indeed I would, Gotama. And if you were now asked which direction has it gone Vaccha, east or west, south or north? How would you reply Vaccha, answer just as you see fit, in any way you wish. Which direction? One can not say Gotama, the fire burnt because of sticks and grass, and with the end of them it too is extinguished. So to for the breaking up of the body of one gone beyond, when the body is abandoned, cut at the root, like a tree completely uprooted, it does not come into existence again in the future; one gone beyond of is entirely freed from the compulsion of embodied life, just like a vast and mighty ocean, he is profound, immeasurable, of a nature difficult to penetrate; that he is reborn one can not say, that he is not reborn one can not say, that he is both one can not say, that he is neither one can not say. So to for feelings, memories, the will and experiences of one gone beyond, when the body is abandoned, cut at the root, like a tree completely uprooted, they too do not come into existence again in the future, one gone beyond is entirely freed from their compulsion; just like a vast and mighty ocean, he is profound, immeasurable, of a nature difficult to penetrate, that he is reborn one can not say, that he is not reborn one can not say, that he is both one can not say, that he is neither one can not say. >The following text is a quotation from the book "Buddhist Practice >on Western Ground", writen by Harvey B. Aronson: > > "When I was a graduate student in Buddhist studies, my major >professor, Richard Robinson, said that it was important to understand >the cultural context within any Buddhist teaching arose. He liked to >point out that, for example, at the time of Gautama, the term nirvana >was used with respect to a fire going out, and it was believed that >an extinguished fire went into some dormant, unmanifest state, not a >state of nonexistence. For Indians of that time, this understanding >of nirvana would have been implicit and unavoidable. When they heard >that Buddha attained nirvana, they would understand it to be the >attainment of a dormant, unmanifest condition rather than some >absolute nullity. Knowing this gives us a more nuanced understanding >of this important Buddhist concept". > > Enjoy your sunday. > > Regards, > > Francisco. > > > > > > >Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, >Right Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right >Livelihood >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Would you Help a Child in need? It is easier than you think. Click Here to meet a Child you can help. http://us.click.yahoo.com/0Z9NuA/I_qJAA/i1hLAA/S27xlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZenForum/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
