Hi Alex, Francisco, and all When I posted that, I wanted to show that while, as Alex says, no determinations can ever do it justice, the Buddha still used a simile - "like a vast and mighty ocean" "profound, immeasurable, of a nature difficult to penetrate"
I think this simile of the ocean can help allay concerns about Nirvana as some kind of "absolute nullity" nada, zippo, state of nonexistence. Nirvana is not actually "indeterminate" in the sense of "undefinable". It is precisely defined by the Buddha as "the extinction of desire, the extinction of hatred, the extinction of illusion." It's just that this very precise definition does not give any descriptive qualities to it. Ian >Richard Robinson's interpretation of nirvana, as >described below, is incorrect. No 'dormant, unmanifest >condition' could ever be applicable to the concept of >nirvana. > >Nirvana, as the Buddha plainly explained to Vaccha >(thanks for posting the Fire Sutta, Ian), is >indeterminate. No determinations can ever do it >justice, under any circumstances. The Buddha insisted >on that, was adamant on that, and we must respect that >teaching. > >Alex > > >--- Francisco Garcia Scherer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > The following text is a quotation from the book > > "Buddhist Practice > > on Western Ground", writen by Harvey B. Aronson: > > > > "When I was a graduate student in Buddhist > > studies, my major > > professor, Richard Robinson, said that it was > > important to understand > > the cultural context within any Buddhist teaching > > arose. He liked to > > point out that, for example, at the time of Gautama, > > the term nirvana > > was used with respect to a fire going out, and it > > was believed that > > an extinguished fire went into some dormant, > > unmanifest state, not a > > state of nonexistence. For Indians of that time, > > this understanding > > of nirvana would have been implicit and unavoidable. > > When they heard > > that Buddha attained nirvana, they would understand > > it to be the > > attainment of a dormant, unmanifest condition rather > > than some > > absolute nullity. Knowing this gives us a more > > nuanced understanding > > of this important Buddhist concept". > > > > Enjoy your sunday. > > > > Regards, > > > > Francisco. > > > > > > > > > >No karma was produced during the composition of this letter > >__________________________________________________ >Do You Yahoo!? >Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around >http://mail.yahoo.com > > > >Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, >Right Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right >Livelihood >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Would you Help a Child in need? It is easier than you think. Click Here to meet a Child you can help. http://us.click.yahoo.com/0Z9NuA/I_qJAA/i1hLAA/S27xlB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Noble Eightfold Path: Right View, Right Intention, Right Speech, Right Action, Right Effort, Right Mindfulness, Right Concentration, Right Livelihood Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/ZenForum/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
