Since this thread is fraying all over the place, here's a summary post of how I see the history of Cuba.
1. The US interfered with Cuba and controlled it since it received nominal independence from Spain. These interests included industrial (sugar and other agriculture) interests and organized crime. They were backed up by US military force. 2. Cuba tried on a number of occasions to elect truly democratic governments. These governments were destabilized and fell, thanks to the intervention of the above-mentioned interests. 3. Castro (and others) felt that the only way to break this chain was to sever the link with the U.S. He led a successful revolution and severed ties with the U.S. He offered compensation for nationalized assets, but the U.S. passed a law making it illegal for U.S. residents to accept compensation. 4. Castro's ideology at least after taking power was communism. 5. Castro may or may not have been a communist since before the revolution, however, a) it's irrelevant because his true "ideology" was simply anti-US -- he had seen what he felt to be the rape of his country and wanted to stop it, and would use whatever means necessary to achieve that aim; b) when witnesses are trotted forth from JBS literature saying that Castro had always been a communist, we're supposed to believe them, but when it's shown that these witnesses are misrepresented, all of a sudden they become "Gadianton Robbers" and aren't to be trusted -- that is not an objective approach; c) concentrating on the ideology, and demonizing Castro because of it allows the far right to ignore or divert issues of how Castro was able to seize power in the first place (by dint of US interference and proto-imperialism). 6. That things aren't even worse in Central America and the Caribbean are thanks to an elder of Zion, J. Reuben Clark, Jr., whose "Clark Memorandum" diverted early 20th century attempts by the U.S. to become true imperialists like their British and French predecessors. 7. I have no idea what Victor is talking about. Where does one get a card that says one is a liberal democrat? (except in Britain, where there's a Liberal Democratic party). Also, it's "straitlaced," not "straightlaced." The words have different meanings. If he means all Democrats are liberal, then I suggest he discuss his problem with President Faust, a registered Democrat. 8. An ideological approach is one where one demonizes an opponent by using a label in such a way as to divert one's attention from what actually happened in history. One of its particularly obnoxious tools, and the reason I left Zion-L once, is when they try to claim ecclesiastical/doctrinal authority for their perverted and hobby horse views. 9. Pointing out your own history to you doesn't make one "anti-USAmerican". If you disagree with my reading of history, then prove me wrong, don't attack the messenger. That's the classic mistake of an ad hominem argument. I think that covers it all. I'll proceed with any discussion of the topic based on these points, because I've already addressed them. If others are merely going to rehash earlier arguments, I'm going to ignore them -- they've already been addressed. So address the response, don't just repeat yourself. -- Marc A. Schindler Spruce Grove, Alberta, Canada -- Gateway to the Boreal Parkland “We do not think that there is an incompatibility between words and deeds; the worst thing is to rush into action before the consequences have been properly debated…To think of the future and wait was merely another way of saying one was a coward; any idea of moderation was just an attempt to disguise one’s unmanly character; ability to understand a question from all sides meant that one was totally unfitted for action.” – Pericles about his fellow-Athenians, as quoted by Thucydides in “The Peloponessian Wars” Note: This communication represents the informal personal views of the author solely; its contents do not necessarily reflect those of the author’s employer, nor those of any organization with which the author may be associated. ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ==^^=============================================================== This email was sent to: archive@jab.org EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] T O P I C A -- Register now to manage your mail! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/register ==^^===============================================================
