Jon, I am having trouble seeing where we disagree. I think you have stated the case very well.
The basic answer to the original question is that the person who committs suicide is not to be judged by anyone other than God. And there is no automatic assignment to some lessor kingdom because of the act. George ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jon Spencer" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 8:42 PM Subject: Re: [ZION] Where Suicides Go > I strongly agree with George on this issue of suicide. Just as with any > other transgression of law, intent is an important factor. I don't know > about anyone else, but I sometimes have a hard time figuring out what my > state of mind is, much less anyone else's. There is no set rule for many > things. > > For example, we know that murder is the spilling of innocent blood. What if > a criminal is holding many people hostage and is about to kill one of them. > A sniper tries to shoot the killer, but somehow kills a captive instead. > This is certainly the spilling of innocent blood, so its murder, right? Is > it? > > What about someone who is so mentally unbalanced at some moment that they > commit suicide, where there is no way that they would do so under normal > circumstances. Are they really exercising agency in the same manner that > they would if they cheated on their husband (and you thought I was talking > about a man!)? I don't think so, but my opinion is irrelevant. She will be > judged by someone with perfect knowledge. I am quite happy to leave that > judgment to someone qualified to make it, because I am most certainly NOT > qualified to make it. > > Jon > > George Cobabe wrote: > > > No. You and I are not in a postion to make such judgements and should not > > do so. Can you imagine telling the family of such a victim this > > speculation? You do not know the circumstances or the state of mind of > such > > a person and cannot understand the judgement that will be offered to them. > > > > Comments may be found to the contrary, but the thinking and practice on > this > > subject has changed a great deal in the past number of years in the > church. > > > > I have a friend whose father was a successful businessman, with a lovely > > family, a great contributor to charity and whose name is prominently > > displayed as a major contributor to BYU. He had the world by the tail by > > any standard. He was the Bishop of a singles ward and when released from > > that calling went into a depressive period which ended when he took his > > life. > > > > The Apostles, yes plural, which spoke at his funeral make it clear that > you > > should not judge him unwisely or harshly. I would take their advice on > this > > matter. > > > > George > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Stacy Smith" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Monday, September 08, 2003 3:41 AM > > Subject: [ZION] Where Suicides Go > > > > > > > I am now positive that if one kills himself he will end up as a > telestial > > > being. Am I right on this point? > > > > > > Stacy. > > > > > > > > > -- > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > > > > > //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// > > // > > > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > > > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > > > > > > //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// > > / > > > > > > > > > > > //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// > // > > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > > > //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// > / > > > > > > > > //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// // > /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// > /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// > //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// / > > ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// /// ZION LIST CHARTER: Please read it at /// /// http://www.zionsbest.com/charter.html /// ///////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// --^---------------------------------------------------------------- This email was sent to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?aaP9AU.bWix1n.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html --^----------------------------------------------------------------