On Wednesday 21 April 2004 05:52 am, Eckart Hertzler wrote: > I don't agree. > I am new to zope. So I tried zope2 first, because plone had a lot of appeal. > I got discouraged very quickly, because zope2 is so very grown over a time > it's hard to join later. > > Zope3 seemed quite well documented and I had no problems going on on my own. > ( There is a tutorial, a cookbook, and an online apidoc ) > > I can say nothing however to migrating apps from zope2 to zope3.
I'm really looking forward to Zope 3, and I'm thinking about migrating to it this Summer. I've been developing an application, which has taken about two years, largely because developing in the Zope 2 "Framework" model is like beating your head against the wall constantly. That's probably because I'm writing a fundamentally complex web application which I need to have a lot of large-scale control over. I'm not writing in an environment where a "slightly-customized" ZMI or even a "collection of new Zope objects" will quite do the job. I'm writing a system which gives end-users (NOT CS experts) a lot of control over their environment. And there are fundamental user-interface changes involved. I also have to do this in my "copious free time", as I'm not commercially employed to do this work (maybe someday, but not now). So in those two years, I've probably had the equivalent of 2 months of full-time work. For somebody dealing with that, the constant pressure to adapt to a changing platform and the myriad interfaces that break when you do, and the unwillingness to document these problems "because that's too old" get really frustrating. The lack of formally defined interfaces makes it very hard to deal with this situation -- it's not easy to mix-and-match the new parts you need with the old parts you haven't been able to upgrade yet. In short -- Zope 2 is TOO LABOR INTENSIVE. Mostly because it's TOO COMPLEX and TOO MONOLITHIC. During the development phase of my project, I've had to upgrade Zope THREE times, and EACH one REQUIRED A MAJOR RE-WRITE on my part. That makes it very difficult to concentrate on forward momentum. I've missed my own deadlines, and had to admit that I simply can't deliver the product on anything like the schedule I originally was trying for. And this "3 steps forward, 2 steps back" problem of dealing with a changing, poorly documented, and often buggy platform is part of the reason. The promise of Zope 3 is that it is following Python's TOOLBOX model, and making it easier to separate out the parts you need into separate interfaceable components. This will make life vastly easier for large-scale projects which don't follow the typical "quick and dirty" Zope site model. Or so I hope. ;-) I don't understand everything else they're doing with it, and I've had frustrations with Zope 3, but in the long run (which I care about -- I expect my application, or a later version of it, to be in use in 15-20 years, so I'm not just concerned with "first to market"), I think it will be easier to keep up with. I understand that my situation is probably unusual, but I do want to speak out to say that there is interest in Zope 3, and I personally expect to be using it before 2005. Cheers, Terry -- Terry Hancock ( hancock at anansispaceworks.com ) Anansi Spaceworks http://www.anansispaceworks.com _______________________________________________ Zope-Dev maillist - [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-dev ** No cross posts or HTML encoding! ** (Related lists - http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope-announce http://mail.zope.org/mailman/listinfo/zope )