On Jun 15, 2006, at 10:09 AM, Philipp von Weitershausen wrote:

Well, except that the actual, formal deprecation of zLOG finally made
everyone aware of the logging module and a few things like logging
levels that no one had thought about till then. So I wouldn't say the
benefit was exactly zero... whether it ways out agianst the costs I
don't think I can say at this point.

If you can't say, it means you're not sure if there's a clear win, and if thats the case I think you gotta be on the side of not removing it under Hippocratic rules.

For what it's worth, maybe there's some middle ground here.  Just
because something is deprecated doesn't need it needs to have a hard
date to be removed.  Why don't we just have the first use of zLOG in
each module generate a deprecation warning and just leave it there

Or make it available optionally. After all, it's just a Python module.
Perhaps we should put up the latest version from Zope 2.10 as a separate
egg on the cheeseshop. People can then just ez_install it if their
product still happens to need it...

Yeah.  Or just leave it in. ;-)

There are reasons we are bothering to change the Zope 2 APIs at this
point instead of all of us moving to Zope 3 wholesale.  One reason is
because we've figured out that in the real world backwards compatibility
and familiarity are primary drivers for take-up of technology.  Let's
please not forget that again, and let's be careful.

I agree. This is why we need watch each other's steps and discuss the
things. This has coined the term "checkin police" in Zope 3. We already
have it in Zope 2, but somehow it has failed this time... This whole
discussion has uncovered lots of stacked up frustration, it seems; it
could have been held a lot earlier, I guess (from both sides).

Yup, see my mea culpa in my first message to this thread. I don't like needing to take a hard line on these issues, and I gotta admit to being extremely sympathetic to wanting to rip out all of this stuff in a perfect world, but my first allegiance is to my customers, who have completely different goals than the people who want rapid change.

- C

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