Hi there,

I just found out about this site:

http://www.blueskyonmars.com/projects/paver/

I know that the author has used buildout in the past. He apparently decided to roll his own.

I have no idea what the technical qualities of paver are. To get your attention, let me spell out a strongly worded and opinionated message nonetheless:

zc.buildout is toast. It's on the way out now. Paver is going to compete it away and buildout is doomed to be a niche project only used by weird zope people.

That's strongly worded. I'll admit it's drastically overstated. It's based on virtually no technical information! But that's exactly how many programmers will judge the projects: on community aspects, and not primarily technical.

Paver has this in its favor:

* Paver actually has a nice website that speaks to Python programmers of simplicity. zc.buildout has cheeseshop page with a lot of doctest documentation people have said was hard to understand. (including the author of paver!)

* the author is well connected in the Python community. I'd say TurboGears and Pylons people are likely to go for Paver.

* it's *already* showing up on programmer's sites like programming.reddit.com, where I just found it. Nobody bothers to link to buildout, as there's no easily digestable message about it available.

So, I fear very much that this, or some other alternative, will wash away the undoubtedly more feature-rich and technically robust zc.buildout, if buildout doesn't present itself better. Without better presentation, fast, buildout is doomed to be a Zope-specific thing forever.

You Can Save Buildout!

So, who is up to make a nice clean looking website and a few tutorials for buildout? It needs a website. Buildout has been around for a few years without a proper website already, Paver for 5 minutes and it's got one. I'm not going to do it, but someone should.

Just to be sure, I certainly *won't* be doing this. Jim won't either, and I don't expect it from him. Let him write great code, not make websites. So don't sit back and hope someone else will do it, as they won't. If nobody else can bother to step up, Paver probably deserves to win. If you're intereested, I think we already have a nice buildout for deploying grok.zope.org that can probably be adapted. The repoze people have a nice site too, so you could go ask there.

Alternatively we start to figure out how to convert our buildouts to Paver. :)

Regards,

Martijn

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