Martijn Faassen wrote:
Hi there,
I just found out about this site:
http://www.blueskyonmars.com/projects/paver/
I know that the author has used buildout in the past. He apparently
decided to roll his own.
I have no idea what the technical qualities of paver are. To get your
attention, let me spell out a strongly worded and opinionated message
nonetheless:
zc.buildout is toast. It's on the way out now. Paver is going to
compete it away and buildout is doomed to be a niche project only
used by weird zope people.
That's strongly worded. I'll admit it's drastically overstated. It's
based on virtually no technical information! But that's exactly how
many programmers will judge the projects: on community aspects, and
not primarily technical.
Paver has this in its favor:
* Paver actually has a nice website that speaks to Python programmers
of simplicity. zc.buildout has cheeseshop page with a lot of doctest
documentation people have said was hard to understand. (including the
author of paver!)
* the author is well connected in the Python community. I'd say
TurboGears and Pylons people are likely to go for Paver.
* it's *already* showing up on programmer's sites like
programming.reddit.com, where I just found it. Nobody bothers to link
to buildout, as there's no easily digestable message about it
available.
So, I fear very much that this, or some other alternative, will wash
away the undoubtedly more feature-rich and technically robust
zc.buildout, if buildout doesn't present itself better. Without
better presentation, fast, buildout is doomed to be a Zope-specific
thing forever.
You Can Save Buildout!
So, who is up to make a nice clean looking website and a few
tutorials for buildout? It needs a website. Buildout has been around
for a few years without a proper website already, Paver for 5 minutes
and it's got one. I'm not going to do it, but someone should.
Our company (ZeOmega) is willing to volunteer to do this work.
Jeff Rush, who presented a tutorial about Buildout in last PyCon
will be helping us to create this site [1].
I think it is better not to associate Buildout with zope.org domain.
So, either we can create a new domain www.buildout.org
or if you all agree a subdomain of python.org : buildout.python.org
I hope we can use ZF's server infrastructure for hosting,
otherwise we can also provide it.
BTW, we already started creating some content here:
http://wiki.python.org/moin/buildout/
http://wiki.python.org/moin/buildout/newsite_notes
[1] http://us.pycon.org/2008/tutorials/EggsRush/
Regards,
Baiju M
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