On Mar 3, 2009, at 7:35 AM, Martijn Pieters wrote:


> And so far I haven't heard any better ideas than
> what Martijn is proposing (no, leaving the status quo, deny there is a
> problem and steer by majority is not a counter proposal in my view).
> It may be that the idea needs some tweaking, but that's just details.
> Would it be possible to focus this discussion around clearer lines?
> Create counter proposals if you have to


I'm surprised my proposal didn't generate any replies, and can only  
assume that it is because it created the silence of everyone quietly  
saying "Whaaa?" :-)

My mild counter proposal was this.

- The ZF formally institutes an easy way for people to start "Zope"  

- Hopefully, Martijn F. starts something like the project he described

- Hopefully, people follow it.

In other words, I suppose, Just Do It.

I don't think Martijn, nor anyone else who has been part of the  
community long enough to be on the ZF, needs the entire community to  
bless his idea to try to move forward--they need just an absence of a  
veto for the use of the chosen name, as I proposed more concretely in  
the original email.

I think that incorporates some of the more laissez-faire advocates are  
arguing for: someone else can also start their own counter project, if  
desired.  Maybe they won't, but they can.  And this freedom could  
allow us to escape the need to feel that everyone has to agree about  

Beyond that, I didn't say my other smaller thought, which was that I  
think the KGS should ideally be looser and more flexible than what  
Martijn described.  If you have a project that wants in on the KGS,  
great, you can add it.  Institute a "nightly" KGS for an upcoming  
release (and maybe the most recent release).  It stays around forever  
at a specific URL.  Include only the projects whose tests pass in the  
nightly KGS.  Have a list elsewhere of the ones for which the tests  
fail.  If the tests don't pass for some period of time, apparently the  
maintainers and users don't exist or don't care, and they get taken  
off the list to be tested.  The "Zope Framework" team leader then  
decides some time to make a release, so people might shuffle around  
versions more than usual, but it's just another KGS.


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