On Fri, Jan 22, 2010 at 04:55, Alex Clark <acl...@aclark.net> wrote:
> We certainly
> have not reached the goal of helping newcomers understand the Zope ecosystem
> in any other way to date, IMO.)

If this is so, then I'm surprised. It seems perfectly clear to me.

1. In the beginning there is Python, the language.

2. Then you get ZCA a component architecture for Python. It has
nothing to do with Web whatsoever.

3. Then we have ZTK. A toolkit for building web frameworks.

4. On top of that we have Zope 2, BlueBream and Grok.

5. There is also BFG, which doesn't include/build on the ZTK (as the others do).

It's pretty clear to me. Notice the almost complete lack of naming
confusion, and the plethora of marketable names and TLA's. The paper
pushers like these kinds of graphs (although I think we need something
prettier, I might try do do something this weekend, but I'm no

And when it comes to separating the frameworks it obviously becomes
more complex. So we need to explain this, what the different framworks
are good at in a clear way. I see it like this, but I could be wrong:

* Zope 2 is the granddaddy of the frameworks. It's not really built on
top of ZTK, but includes it. You basically only use Zope 2 if you are
using some sort of software that builds on it, like Plone, Silva, or
something custom.

To build on my earlier car analogy: Zope 2 is an old pickup truck. You
can get it to do anything. You can drop it from the top of a building
and it will run. When it breaks you whack it with a hammer until it's
not broken anymore. But it's diesel engine kinda stinks.

* BlueBream used to be called Zope 3 and is a component based
enterprise kick-ass do everything framework. Everything is
configurable and it doesn't just include batteries, but a whole power
plant. Which admittedly can be tricky to run.

BlueBream is a train. Fast, big and pulls heavy loads, and good for
the environment. If that's what you need, you know it.

* Grok is an easier to use (and at least in the future also
smaller/lighter) framework than BlueBream, while retaining the
flexibility. Instead of having to configure everything, you have
sensible defaults. Less typing, and it doesn't feel like J2EE.
Inspired by frameworks like Django and Turbogears, you get the nice
Python framework feeling with the power of ZTK behind you.

Grok is a an hybrid minibus. Easy to drive, infinitely reconfigurable
just by switching the seats around.

* BFG is a minimalistic web framework built on Zope ideas and
experiences, but as a part of it's minimalistic nature does not
include *anything* of the ZTK, it just builds on the ZCA. But you can
use the ZTK, if you want to, you are just not required to do so. It's
for the purist, for the guy who wants to build his own streamlined

BFG is a frame with four wheels and an big engine. The rest is up to you.

Lennart Regebro: Python, Zope, Plone, Grok
+33 661 58 14 64
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