Martin, > When I said roped strings were dull compared to plain gut I was talking only > about relatively thin strings, say .80-.90mm.
I tried both thicker and thinner Aquilla Venice ropes and even on 4th course they sound brighter than plain gut IMHO. But, this discussion only shows how relative our sound perception is. > > For the KF strings, the high tensions which many people want to use will not > work because the thicker KF strings are really too thick and stiff to work. > On the 11th course of an 11c lute I would use nothing larger than 1.50mm > (actual diameter). I'm using .95 for the 6th course. > I am using 1.60 on 11th course and it works fine for me. But again it’s a matter of taste. > Another factor with KF strings is the importance of thinning them where they > go through the bridge and wrap over themselves in front of the bridge. If > you don't do this, the sound will be dull and you will probably get problems > with the strings buzzing against the top of the bridge. > Yes, mine have split ends at the bridge. Best Jaroslaw > Martin > > On 03/02/2017 11:39, Jarosław Lipski wrote: >> Mimmo, >> >>> You experience is that a roped string is duller than a plain gut? I have >>> the contrary. Maybe it is necessary to know how the roped string was done. >>> Mine is a roped string made with two fresh 'brins' twisted like as rope and >>> then polished. In practice our Venices. >> Yes, I use your Venice roped strings and can confirm this. They are brighter >> than plain gut >> >>> I would like to buy some KF strings just to do a comparation: >> I have both KFs and your CDs and compared them side to side. KFs have >> shorter sustain, are more percussive and …slightly duller sound IMO. KFs >> work well till 11th course on BQL. I don’t like them on diapasons. CDs have >> stronger fundamental, longer sustain (much longer than guts) and work very >> well on diapasons, however their elasticity make them work only on >> instruments with higher than normal action and wide string spacing. Also >> tuning is not ideal. >> >>> Heck, guys, what to do? first or second option? >>> At present the second option is the winner! >> Now, the question is what is your goal in making CD strings. If you aim at >> finding a substitute for gut strings than stiffer strings would be better. I >> am used to gut basses so I like short sustain and a little bit stiffer >> string. If someone played only overwounds he/she would probably prefer >> longer sustain. So the answer to your question will depend on whom you’ll >> ask. >> All in all there is no one answer to this question, and probably you would >> have to take into consideration your business strategy. >> Best >> Ciao >> >> Jaroslaw >> >> >> >> >>> ciao to all >>> Mimmo >>> >>> -----Messaggio originale----- From: Martin Shepherd >>> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 10:22 AM >>> To: Mimmo Peruffo ; Matthew Daillie >>> Cc: Arto Wikla ; baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >>> Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing >>> >>> Thanks, Mimmo. >>> >>> I agree absolutely that there is no need to make versions of these >>> strings thinner than .80mm. >>> >>> The issue of damping is perhaps the one which worries me most. In the >>> case of roped strings, they sound duller than a plain gut string of the >>> same size, presumably because of internal friction between the strands >>> of the rope. In the case of rubber strings (sorry!) what worries me is >>> that some damping/absorption of energy is happening as the string >>> stretches and contracts with each vibration. The KF fluorocarbon >>> strings, being solid and stiff, have neither of these damping effects. >>> I can imagine that a string which was "floppy" but not especially >>> elastic would work well. >>> >>> I hope that a lower rubber content would allow the strings to slide >>> better over the nut, which would also be a welcome characteristic. >>> >>> Best to all, >>> >>> Martin >>> >>> On 03/02/2017 10:09, Mimmo Peruffo wrote: >>>> Thank you very much about all these helpfull suggestions, guys. >>>> >>>> actually the gauges from 80 CD till 105CD are made half loaded using also >>>> a stiffer elastomer. This combination is perfect fo the tonl trasiction >>>> betweenj pure gut/nylon/Nylgut to a wound strings, KF or CDs etc etc. >>>> I call this range of gauges simply as Meanes. they are still CD types >>>> however. >>>> In practice they are around the 5th course of renaissance & d minor Lutes. >>>> I have intentionally exluded the 4th courses because make not sense at >>>> all to use a denser strings on it. The 80 CD is just done for those that >>>> are curious. >>>> >>>> well, I done the very first prototypes (than cannot be perfect) and sent >>>> out to some friends to hear their opinions: of course, some of them were >>>> uneven. Despite that I had very good reports. >>>> Some installed them also like octaves (!): I never realized that >>>> additional option. However, I do not raccomend. Octaves normally can >>>> works at higher working index than a 5 th course; so they can breack. >>>> >>>> said that, I agree with you Matthew. thanks >>>> >>>> Martin, a stiffer string has an higher elasticity modulus so the >>>> performances are less good than those of an equivalent string with more >>>> elasticity. You probably reffers to the KF strings. However there are >>>> others parameters at work here, for example the inner damping effect is >>>> one of them, and it is not related to the elasticity modulus. This >>>> explain for example why a special kind of nylon, whose density is far less >>>> than fluorocarbon sound like this one. It was a huge surprise to me! >>>> >>>> I am thinking that you guys prefer the second option. To me is even >>>> better, it help to solve some problem becausew they sometime stick on the >>>> nut slots/ grooves. >>>> >>>> False strings? yes, with prototypes can happen. when one start with the >>>> ufficial production an extruder plant work exatly in the same even way. >>>> The first strings are the waste and then the rest are done exactly in the >>>> same way. >>>> well, I am leaving italy to London so I have not time to re start; I will >>>> do some samples both for meanes and basses just to see if they actually >>>> works in the proper way >>>> Be patient again; i cannot be too fast here. >>>> Mimmo >>>> >>>> >>>> -----Messaggio originale----- From: Martin Shepherd >>>> Sent: Friday, February 03, 2017 9:35 AM >>>> To: Matthew Daillie ; Mimmo Peruffo >>>> Cc: Arto Wikla ; baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >>>> Subject: Re: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing >>>> >>>> Tout à fait d'accord, Matthew. >>>> >>>> I would add that "trueness" is not just a question of intonation when >>>> notes are fretted. A false string never sounds in tune even as an open >>>> string, and the pattern of vibration makes it buzz against the frets. >>>> If your string heights are high enough that this isn't a problem, >>>> they're too high. >>>> >>>> I don't know whether the samples I had from Mimmo some time ago are the >>>> same as the current production, but I thought they were too elastic. He >>>> did say he was going to make a less elastic version for the thinner >>>> strings, but I don't know whether he's implemented this idea or not (can >>>> you tell us, Mimmo?). I'm slightly puzzled by the suggestion that the >>>> less elastic version would have a duller or darker sound, I would almost >>>> expect the opposite - as a comparison, the KF strings are very stiff but >>>> sound bright. >>>> >>>> It would be such a shame if after all his efforts we end up with a >>>> string which is not as good as the old loaded gut. Actually the new >>>> string needs to be better than that in terms of trueness. >>>> >>>> Best wishes to all, >>>> >>>> Martin >>>> >>>> On 03/02/2017 09:06, Matthew Daillie wrote: >>>>> Dear Mimmo, >>>>> In my opinion there are two factors which need to be given priority even >>>>> before judging the sound of a string. Firstly it has to be true (with no >>>>> problems of intonation going up the fingerboard for stopped strings) and >>>>> secondly it has to be playable: on a well-made and well set up lute, it >>>>> must not catch on the nut, buzz, hit a neighbouring string, hit against >>>>> the fingerboard, or cause any other extraneous noises. If a string has >>>>> the potential to sound wonderful but does not meet these two criteria, >>>>> then it is of no use whatsoever. >>>>> Once that is established, obviously players want a string with a >>>>> full-bodied and stable tone, enough sustain to make voice-leading a >>>>> pleasure and the instrument to sing to the best of its ability and >>>>> sufficient power to provide convincing projection and resonance. >>>>> Personally I am looking for a warm and sweet tone with precise >>>>> fundamentals and enough overtones to make the timbre rich and variable. >>>>> Oh dear, that does sound like a holy grail doesn't it? >>>>> Fingers crossed! >>>>> Best >>>>> Matthew >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 3, 2017, at 8:29, Mimmo Peruffo <mperu...@aquilacorde.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Thank you for the suggestion Arto. >>>>>> Unfortunately i cannot do it >>>>>> I already image how confuse the thing will be with the customers. >>>>>> This mean the eford to mannage twice products and honestly I do not >>>>>> like to add cofusion in the factory and with customers already stressed >>>>>> by me! >>>>>> >>>>>> I should do a choice and in fast time: is it better a more elastic >>>>>> string like these are (whith problems related to the fact that maybe >>>>>> stretch tooo much and that the sound is too bright) or it is better to >>>>>> switch to a less elastic plastic support with the advantage that it >>>>>> stretch less, the sound is darker and with less sustain? >>>>>> Hard to do the choice: both solutions are ok; i already tried the >>>>>> second option that is similar to the loaded gut strings >>>>>> Even Anthony Bailes suggested me the second option. >>>>>> >>>>>> Strings or not to strings? this is the question >>>>>> >>>>>> ah ah >>>>>> (my poor english at work) >>>>>> Ciao >>>>>> Mimmo >>>>>> >>>>>> ps >>>>>> which are your suggestion guys? >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> -----Messaggio originale----- >>>>>> From: Arto Wikla >>>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 02, 2017 9:46 PM >>>>>> To: Mimmo Peruffo ; baroque-lute@cs.dartmouth.edu >>>>>> Subject: [BAROQUE-LUTE] Re: Baroque Lute Stringing >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear Mimmo, >>>>>> >>>>>> if you decide to make the loaded nylgut strings (CD) less elastic, I >>>>>> hope (and wish and urge ;-) ) that you keep also the original elastic >>>>>> version in your repertoire! They work exceptionally well on my Harz >>>>>> arclute, great stuff. >>>>>> >>>>>> And big thanks for your invaluable work! >>>>>> >>>>>> Arto >>>>>> >>>>>>> On 02/02/17 14:03, Mimmo Peruffo wrote: >>>>>>> Well, seeing this post I have the idea to switch to these stiffer >>>>>> ones. >>>>>>> at the end of the day they are closer to those loaded strings made of >>>>>> gut. >>>>>>> I will do some samples in advance. >>>>>>> Mimmo >>>>>> >>>>>> To get on or off this list see list information at >>>>>> http://www.cs.dartmouth.edu/~wbc/lute-admin/index.html >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>> >>>> --- >>>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >>>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >>> >>> >>> --- >>> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. >>> https://www.avast.com/antivirus >>> >>> >> >> > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus >
