The BMW UUC Digest Volume 2 : Issue 5 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Re: The Bug is biting Re: The Bug is biting Re: The Bug is biting Re: Tire Mounting Re: X5 vs. Audi Re: NY Times article on Bangle E36 Failed Emissions test Re: E36 Failed Emissions test Re: The Bug is biting Re: Tire Mounting Warsteiner (Was Bangle article) Re: Warsteiner (Was Bangle article) Re: Warsteiner (Was Bangle article)
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:10:20 -0500 From: "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: The Bug is biting Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > G35 -- Nissan sure as hell makes one amazing motor. This car > offers much that the 3-series does, at a lower price. > Downsides? I'm not a huge > fan of the cosmetics, and the 330i is proven faster in > testing. A worthy competitor, but one most people want even > think twice about 10 years > from now. I think it only is slower in the 0-60 blast due to having to shift to 3rd. Due to the trick options available on the G35....brembos, Torsen LSD, etc, this car should be faster at the track & more consitent as well. I thought this car was way better than any E46 I've ever driven. ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:33:43 -0500 From: "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: The Bug is biting Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > The only car in the same price range that I sometimes feel > like may have > been better medicine for my mid life crisis is the Vette Z06. > Of course, > this isn't a very direct comparison since the Z06 only a two > seater and > really screams out to everyone the problem you are having. Having been > in a friend's Z06, it is another outrageous car. The hp of the E46 M3 > combined with the high rpm peak is not outclassed by the Vette though. > The 330 hp M3 is a truly obscene toy for street use. The BMW > DSC is the > best on the market for helping prevent you from becoming > intimate with a > tree while you learn how to handle the car. > Bill Heumann Damn right the Z06 isn't a direct competitor. The Z06 is a no-nosense sports car, whereas the M3 is a very luxurious touring car. I've driven an Z06 in autocrosses & on a track (not at full blast though), as my boss has one we drag to DE's. I don't see how an M3 could even be considered in the same performance league. I've only driven an E46 M3 at a dealer, but there's no where near the thrust of the Z06. We took this car to lunch yesterday for the first time in a while, & it really helps to smash lunch through your spine.... The math proves it pretty simply....the Z06 has 405hp & near 400 lb-ft of torque compared to, what 321 & ~270 for the M3. Plus, the Z06 weighs in at almost 350lbs less than an M3. If you think the Z06 doesn't handle or brake, you'd be wrong. I try to go out of my way to test drive just about everything I can, well, because it's fun (and how do I know if I don't want something unless I drive it), and the Z06 makes everything else I've ever driven just feel plain slow. On track, even the average drivers in Z06's blow the doors off just about everything. About the DSC, have you tried your buddy's Z06 in the "competitive driving" mode? I'd say that's pretty apt to prevent some stupidity issues as well. One of the good things about the Z06 is the adjustability in the suspension. Aside from helping tire wear, you can corner-weight the car & have the flexibility to set the alignment to settings that would make Chevy's lawyers cringe in fear. Hear's how to make your choice: If you want the absolute fastest car at the DE, autocross, drag race, open lapping, whatever, buy the Z06. If you want a slower, but still stonkingly fast car that offers every option under the sun with a nice comfy interior that your wife may sometimes have to drive, then pick the M3. Here's another thing & for me (assuming I was rich) this would be the clincher. With the in coming C6's the value of all C5's is dropping. Because he's a chevy guy my boss has been taking notice. The lowest he's seen a price on a NEW Z06 is around $37-38k. At that price, I'd be likely to forget everything else....heck at that price you could buy it & make it so fast nobody could touch you & still have cash left over....or buy a tow vehicle.... > > E46 M3 > Z4 > E36 328iS BTW, you have a very nice garage there...... Lee 88M3->no 400hp, no tow vehicle, although I can use my boss' Silverado SS as a support vehicle. Still, have passed both Z06's & E46 M3's, so don't rule out ol' sliver yet ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:35:34 -0800 From: "Eric Valentine" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: The Bug is biting Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I purchased a G35 Coupe 6MT five months ago after consideration of the 330Ci (and E36 M3), and I'll throw in some observations: Interior: Probably its weakest point. Lots of pewterish-colored metallic plastic in the center console. Seats can be somewhat uncomfortable on long drives; they need a bit more support. Orange backlit instruments are kinda dated. The Bose stereo is OK, but not outstanding by any means. Exterior: IMHO, the G35 Coupe is drop-dead gorgeous. This car gets a serious amount of attention from young and old alike. Performance: Whoever feels as if the G35 is slower than the 330 has been misinformed. The G35 has gobs of torque. (and HP, for that matter) Zero to sixty comes up in the mid to high fives and the quarter is dispatched in the mid fourteens. Top speed is limited at 155 MPH. The 3.5l V6 is not nearly as smooth as the inline six in the 330, though. Gas mileage sucks. I've averaged around 16 MPG since I've had the car. Handling/Braking: The G35 feels larger than the 3-series when pushing it through the turns. Probably because the G35 is almost 3500 pounds! The 3-series definitely is the benchmark in the category. I really need to do a driver's school in the G35 to really explore its limits. The Brembos seem up to the task and I'll be able to give a better evaluation of their performance after I do a track day. There is no free maintenance offered from Infiniti, but you are given an Infiniti loaner vehicle when dropping your car off for any scheduled maintenance. Price-independent, I would have purchased a 330Ci Premium/Sport/Xenon/etc but the extra $5K made the G35 purchase an easy choice. The Bimmer is the better driver's car, but the G35 definitely warrants consideration if your looking for a car in this class. Eric Valentine 04 G35 Coupe 6MT 91 318is 00 CBR600F4 _________________________________________________________________ Learn how to choose, serve, and enjoy wine at Wine @ MSN. http://wine.msn.com/ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:44:26 -0500 From: "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, "'M3SIG'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Tire Mounting Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Whew, you guys are waaaaay out of my league. I guess, for now we'll just keep having the tires mounted by Ponder, which also is nice 'cause he has 25+ year racing experience & can & does make comments like, "I don't know how brave you really are, but are you sure you want to use that tire?" Anyway, thanks for all the input. I was just thinking that it might be a possibility for saving some cash. Like I said, this comes out to about $50 per event. Mount new tires once, flip after first event, do second. Repeat. I was thinking with the 6 events I did last year this would come out to $300 which either covers another entry fee or brake pads or something. Those tire mounting machines are just too pricey. A static float balancer is $50 from Harbor Freight....I figured since Ponder has used that on every set of tires I've had on that M3 it would be fine, although, his experience may have something to do with that as well. Thanks, Lee > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Mark Andy > Sent: Wednesday, January 28, 2004 10:57 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [UUC] Tire Mounting > > > Search the > ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Howdy, > > On Tue, 27 Jan 2004, Gary Derian wrote: > > You will not be able to mount low profile tires with tire > irons. Get a > > good tire machine and learn how to use it. Bead adhesive? > That stuff > > is bead lubricant. You can use Murphy's oil soap for that. > > I'll pile on here. > > IMHO, but mounting even a regular non-DOT R tire without a > machine is a > _huge_ PITA. As for DOT-Rs, the stiffer sidewalls that some > use (Hoosier, > for instance) make them often times a large PITA even _with_ > a machine (in > particular, holding the bead down into the wheel relief with one > hand/prybar while the other works a prybar at the tool head while > simultaneosly getting the machine to turn can sometimes be > interesting). > Couple in any kinda smaller rim width than the tire really likes or > difficult to mount rims or whatever and I think you're just > pissing in the > wind thinking that you'll do it manually. > > That said, here's a link to a cheapo tire machine: > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=45656 > > This is an example of a bottom of the line machine (note that > its 220V > btw) with no features. Its similar (at least in specs) to my tire > machine. It'd probably be fine for a home user. The only thing it > doesn't have that would be really handy is bead inflator jets. These > shoot a large amount of air into the tire to pop the bead out > onto the > rim. Ironically, you basically never need this with race > tires, its only > floppy sidewall street tires (particularly snow tires, which > tend to be a > bit narrow for their rim) that have this issue. You can get > external air > blast inflators, but they're $300+ (Cheetah makes some). > > If you do decide to buy a tire machine, ensure that it'll handle the > tire/wheel sizes you care about. The original poster > mentioned 315's on a > 17" rim. Lots of used machines won't handle that. > > Then you've got balancing. I autocross, so I don't balance > my race tires. > Street tires I balance at a friend's shop with a real > balancer. Here's > another bottom of the barrel one: > http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/Displayitem.taf?itemnumber=47211 > > Note that unlike a tire machine, a balancer is actually a > precision piece > of equipment. I dunno if this particular balancer is worth a > crap or not. > > I've never used a static balancer for car wheels, so I have > no idea how > well that works. For motorcycle wheels it seemed to work > fine at racing > speeds (back in the day I was a motorcycle roadracer). > > All that said... I _really_ like having the ability to mount > my own tires. > > Mark > > ______________________________________________________________ > ____________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of > the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:50:24 -0500 From: "Gaudio, Stefano" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'[EMAIL PROTECTED]'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: X5 vs. Audi Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> ...and for a little more (not much once you compare options) than a 4.4i X5 there is a S6 Avant. In the winter series a friend was able to drive it at a autoX faster than he could drive a 2002 911 turbo. Yes this is just one instance, nobody is saying that the S6 is better/faster than a 911T but it shows you just what an amazing handler it is. The torque is also awesome. Great car all around not to mention that the cargo room of an X5 is 16.1cu ft vs the 36.4 cu ft of any audi 6 avant, yes more than double the space! I must confess that I'm not a fan of SUV/SAV even though the V8 X5s may be one of the best handling SUV/SAV out there. Stefano '98 M3 just the right size for me with only 9.x cu ft of cargo. ----------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Jan 2004 20:00:28 -0800 From: "Bora Akyol (BMW)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: X5 vs. Audi Allroad Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> What is the point of buying an allroad when you can get a regular Audi A6 wagon. Yeah, the allroad has more ground clearance but really who cares. And yes, I will take an Audi A6 wagon over an X5 anyday. More cargo room, better looking and better handling. Better interior too. BMW please go back to making light, nimble and well-handling sports cars. Bora _________________________________________________________________ This e-mail and any attachments may be confidential or legally privileged. If you received this message in error or are not the intended recipient, you should destroy the e-mail message and any attachments or copies, and you are prohibited from retaining, distributing, disclosing or using any information contained herein. Please inform us of the erroneous delivery by return e-mail. Thank you for your cooperation. _________________________________________________________________ ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 06:58:17 -0800 (PST) From: Neil Deshpande <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: NY Times article on Bangle Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Mario: I guess the story is untrue then. Oh well! The beer is banned on the shop floor now, I think at most companies. I toured the Siemens VDO facilities in Wuerzburg and they told me about the beer drinking while working, but in the past. Did not see any even in the cafeteria while I was there. I guess quality issues caught up with them. In fact, even the girlie posters were being taken down and there were some in the inner reaches of the Labs that would be very frowned upon in the USA. Took in my complete annual alcohol intake (<5L) in those 10 days in Germany sampling the beers. Herr Euteneuer (also on this List) helped out with the Kolsh variety. Neil Deshpande *** "Langsten" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Woody's RIGHT! We disassembled a 1988 M3 . . a very original car, NEVER apart . . Under the carpet, imprinted into the sound deadening material . . . A SPATEN bottle cap! Germans build their best cars under the influence . . Mario L. www.VSR1.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:08:39 -0500 From: "Ryan Brenneman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: E36 Failed Emissions test Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I have a 92 non vanos e36 325 and I just had it's emissions done here in NC. My HC was 36ppm my CO% was .04 and my CO2% was 7.5. I passed emissions with flying colors but yet I only get 22-24 MPG on the highway. I would gladly trade my emissions for your mileage any day. The car has 175k on it and has recently had all new rubber under the hood, fuel lines, vacuum lines, breather lines, intake boot, intake gaskets, coolant sensor, intake air temp sensor. The only thing I didn't replace was the fuel injectors and they are next. Why is the mileage so different between our cars? Ryan Brenneman 92 325i Street/Track 93 525iT Wifemobile ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:41:16 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Brian Daley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: E36 Failed Emissions test Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -----Original Message----- >From: Ryan Brenneman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > >I have a 92 non vanos e36 325 and I just had it's emissions done here in NC. >My HC was 36ppm my CO% was .04 and my CO2% was 7.5. I passed emissions with >flying colors but yet I only get 22-24 MPG on the highway. I would gladly >trade my emissions for your mileage any day. The car has 175k on it and has >recently had all new rubber under the hood, fuel lines, vacuum lines, >breather lines, intake boot, intake gaskets, coolant sensor, intake air temp >sensor. The only thing I didn't replace was the fuel injectors and they are >next. Why is the mileage so different between our cars? I can think of a number of possible factors: Tire size, type, and pressure Fuel formulation (oxygenated loses fuel mileage) Tune - spark plug condition, etc. Driving style Vehicle weight - 2 vs. 4-door, typical passenger load, stuff in trunk, etc. How you're getting the MPG number (I've found the OBC underestimates by about 1 MPG on my car vs. doing the math myself) I'd also imagine VANOS has a fuel economy advantage vs. non-VANOS although I don't know that for sure. That said I was a little surprised at the cited 30 MPG. I get around 24 MPG in mostly highway driving in my 94 325ic, of course that's a bit heavier and a little less aerodynamic. Brian '94 325ic ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 10:26:20 -0500 From: "Michael Gilbert" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: The Bug is biting Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Hi Bill, Nice writeup - I agree with all of your points re: the E46 M3. So have you thought more about the cams, etc? Just checking in. -Mike -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Bill Heumann Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 8:22 AM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [UUC] The Bug is biting Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] Kevin, IMHO..... Lots of pros and cons with any selection. You didn't really say how you will use the car which is important. I can attest to the fact that if you are having an admitted mid life crisis, and you can afford it, the E46 M3 is a great choice. I have had mine for two years and drive it very hard for a street car with a few DE's each year (planning on 5-7 this year). It has been very reliable and I gotten great service from my local dealership and the dealership a bought the car from although I have had little for them to do. I would not recommend the car if you spend a lot of time driving long distances. I find it pretty uncomfortable for over 4 hours driving. The only car in the same price range that I sometimes feel like may have been better medicine for my mid life crisis is the Vette Z06. Of course, this isn't a very direct comparison since the Z06 only a two seater and really screams out to everyone the problem you are having. Having been in a friend's Z06, it is another outrageous car. The hp of the E46 M3 combined with the high rpm peak is not outclassed by the Vette though. The 330 hp M3 is a truly obscene toy for street use. The BMW DSC is the best on the market for helping prevent you from becoming intimate with a tree while you learn how to handle the car. The Subaru WRX is a great car for the money as is the Infiniti G35. Alas, the WRX is what I would consider if I didn't have the money for the M3 (and I was under 40) and the G35 (as well as the 330i PP) would be cars I would look at if I needed to be a little lower price and/or my wife wouldn't let my get an M3 (doesn't sound like that's your issue). Another consideration is you height. The BMW's seem to be generally engineered for people under about 5'10". If you are taller than that and are leaning towards the E46 M3, do not get the fancy adjustable seat. I am 5'8" tall and with the premium seat at its lowest elevation my head is only about 1" from the roof. The standard seat gets you about another 1 1/2" of headroom. I have the SMG tranny in my M3 and absolutely love it. If you are an audiophile the BMW isn't the best selection. Don't bother with premium audio if you are getting the M3, the engine is a beautiful sound from inside and the car is loud enough you would need to crank up you music to hear it when you are really driving. The G35 or the Cadi both are probably much better in this regard. The E46 M3 eats rear tires up at a rapid pace (10-15k). This is pretty expensive since the setup is different front to back and you can't rotate tires. This like asking how much the gas cost though..... Anyway, the tires on an M3 are cheap compared to Z06! Bill Heumann E46 M3 Z4 E36 328iS __________________________________________________________________________ In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 09:28:38 -0600 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Tire Mounting Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Lee- Just reading this now... I don't mean to discourage, as it is not my style, but this is a pipe dream you need not wast time even trying. Putting a Yoko AVS sport 235/40 - 17 on a 95 M3 wheel is a serious bitch WITH a tire machine. I can confidently say that it is completely impossible to do it manually. I would bet money you couldn't do it even if you did destroy the wheel. In fact, John Bolhuis is right about the sawzall, Tires are so much tougher than we humans can realize. You have gotten some good advice, if you really want to do tires your self, go in with a buddy or two and get a "mag-wheel machine" or a "rim-clamp" style. With this, practice on some wheels you don't care about before you do yours. Even better, try to find someone who has experience and can teach you. Jon ----- Original Message ----- From: "Robinson, Lee" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "'M3SIG'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'UUCDigest'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, January 27, 2004 1:47 PM Subject: [UUC] Tire Mounting > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Everyone, > > I had some questions about mounting tires, specifically track tires. See, > me & this other fellow came to the conclusion that we could split the cost > of some basic stuff, like a static float balancer & maybe some special pry > bars & save about $50 per person per event for mounting & flipping tires. > > I'm sure someone has tried this. We tried deflating a tire & breaking it > off the bead (15" victo) & were somewhat unsuccessful (actually, it was cold > out & we weren't really that interested at the particular time). In the > other guy's case we're looking at 315/35-17's. I'm sure that since we've > been able to properly maintain & even do some extensive work on an E30 M3 & > Z06 (now Z28) that this isn't above our engineering skills. > > Anyway, does anyone have a list of "must haves" to do this? I.e. things we > might not think of like the bead adheasive. Maybe some tips for actually > getting these on & off would be groovy too. > > Thanks in advance, > Lee > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:13:39 -0500 From: "Carey Probst" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Warsteiner (Was Bangle article) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> now question....is that because Warsteiner is not made in Bavaria or because Warsteiner is an official sponsor of the McLaren Mercedes F1 team? does the mean us bimmer heads must drink Bud? From: "Michael Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Amen, English translation for Warsteiner = Bud Light or atleast according to some German folks transferred here for work. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Woody" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 7:35 AM Subject: Re: [UUC] NY Times article on Bangle > No respectable Bavarian would drink Warsteiner. > Woody ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 13:15:25 -0500 From: "Michael Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Warsteiner (Was Bangle article) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I think it just means it is flavored water just like bud light. Nothing wrong with bud light, I order it myself when the selection doesn't offer something I prefer. But it is like ordering tea when the wine list is sub standard too. Not what you want, not much flavor but on the same hand, not painful to drink. But in most places that would serve Warsteiner, they tend to have other, much better choices available. And I have noticed several German nationals make comments about 'piss water' referring to Warsteiner. So if the locals don't think much of it, tells ya something. Mike ----- Original Message ----- From: "Carey Probst" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 11:13 AM Subject: [UUC] Warsteiner (Was Bangle article) > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > now question....is that because Warsteiner is not made in Bavaria or because Warsteiner is an official sponsor of the McLaren Mercedes F1 team? > > does the mean us bimmer heads must drink Bud? > > From: "Michael Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Amen, > > English translation for Warsteiner = Bud Light or atleast according to some > > German folks transferred here for work. > > Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Woody" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 7:35 AM > > Subject: Re: [UUC] NY Times article on Bangle > > > No respectable Bavarian would drink Warsteiner. > > > Woody > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 29 Jan 2004 11:18:20 -0600 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: "Carey Probst" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Warsteiner (Was Bangle article) Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "Carey Probst" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > now question....is that because Warsteiner is not made in Bavaria > or because Warsteiner is an official sponsor of the McLaren Mercedes > F1 team? Probably because it is lousy cheap-ass beer. Way better German alternatives abound. > does the mean us bimmer heads must drink Bud? Only if you are sucker for marketing... alex f > From: "Michael Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Amen, > English translation for Warsteiner = Bud Light or atleast according > to some German folks transferred here for work. > > Mike > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: "Woody" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Sent: Thursday, January 29, 2004 7:35 AM > Subject: Re: [UUC] NY Times article on Bangle > > > No respectable Bavarian would drink Warsteiner. > > > > Woody ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(13 messages) **********
