The BMW UUC Digest
Volume 2 : Issue 164 : "text" Format
Messages in this Issue:
E30Lowering/ Camber question
Re: E30Lowering/ Camber question
Re: E30Lowering/ Camber question
Re: E30Lowering/ Camber question
Re: E30Lowering/ Camber question
E36 chassis stiffness numbers
Admin: Archives
2000 M5 ("Helga") needs new daddy
Re: [uuc] 2000 M5 ("Helga") needs new daddy
Re: [uuc] 2000 M5 ("Helga") needs new daddy
Re: E36 325 rattling front end
Re: eBay: E34 550i
Re: [E30M3OG] Piston health
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Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 12:05:56 -0400
From: "David A. Leonard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: E30Lowering/ Camber question
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hi all,
My 91 e30 ragtop is exhibiting inner front tire scalloping and wear. I had
replaced the stock springs with M-3 stock springs, lowering the car 1.5" or
maybe 2". Does anyone know if this affects toe in as well as camber..I
didn't think it would..but..I have about 15k miles on the rig since the
drop job, (alignment scheduled for Tuesday) .
Any insight would be appreciated..it seems like the tires are indicating
that it needs more toe. The tires have large scallops, looking like what
the front end of a 4 x 4 truck gets if you don't rotate enough.
Thanks, David Leonard
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 14:05:03 -0700
From: jkerouac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "David A. Leonard" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: E30Lowering/ Camber question
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Re: [UUC] E30Lowering/ Camber question:
David,
Sure does affect the toe. The toe change can be visualized by
picturing the tie rod's angle to horizontal as it reaches over to the
steering arm on the strut. With the car lower the arm is more
horizontal, pushing the front of the tire more outward because its
entire length is now the X axis length.
Now picture the lower control arm too. As the car lowers, it goes
more horizontal, thus pushing the axle further outward and forward
increasing both camber and caster. Thirdly, picture the upper strut
mounting point. As the car lowers, since the ball joint is located
forward of the upper mounting point, the caster angle increases form
this effect too, changing the scrub radius.
The sum of the these three deflections do not cancel each other
out. So the tire will toe in as the ride height lowers and out as the
ride height gets higher. This effect is desireable when the car leans
in a turn, however if raising or lowering both sides of the car the
static toe must be reset.
When towing or loading up the trunk for a long trip, if the rear
sits lower, then the front will sit higher. So it's a good idea to toe
in a half to one turn on the tie rods to compensate for the resultant
toe out that will. Driving cross country with a full trunk and trailer
can rapidly wear the front tires' inner tread blocks, ask how I know.
I hope this helps,
Barry
btw Another great mind bender is to envision geometry deflections of the
Z link E3/46 rear suspension. The geometry is fascinating. To warm up
for that exercise, imerse your mind in the movement of an E30 rear
trailing arm that has camber correcting bushings installed, the inner
bushing sleeve full up and the outer bushing with sleeve full down. =-O
David A. Leonard wrote:
> My 91 e30 ragtop is exhibiting inner front tire scalloping and wear.
> I had replaced the stock springs with M-3 stock springs, lowering the
> car 1.5" or maybe 2". Does anyone know if this affects toe in as
> well as camber..I didn't think it would..but..I have about 15k miles
> on the rig since the drop job, (alignment scheduled for Tuesday)
> Thanks, David Leonard
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:00:05 -0700 (PDT)
From: Richard Dorffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: E30Lowering/ Camber question
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- jkerouac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Re: [UUC] E30Lowering/ Camber question:
> btw Another great mind bender is to envision geometry deflections of the
> Z link E3/46 rear suspension. The geometry is fascinating. To warm up
> for that exercise, imerse your mind in the movement of an E30 rear
> trailing arm that has camber correcting bushings installed, the inner
> bushing sleeve full up and the outer bushing with sleeve full down. =-O
Your really living on the edge are ya Barry...
;-)
Regards,
Rich - too busy to start envisioning suspension geometry right now...
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:11:45 -0700 (PDT)
From: Richard Dorffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: E30Lowering/ Camber question
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
--- Richard Dorffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> --- jkerouac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Re: [UUC] E30Lowering/ Camber question:
> > btw Another great mind bender is to envision geometry deflections of the
> > Z link E3/46 rear suspension. The geometry is fascinating. To warm up
> > for that exercise, imerse your mind in the movement of an E30 rear
> > trailing arm that has camber correcting bushings installed, the inner
> > bushing sleeve full up and the outer bushing with sleeve full down. =-O
>
> Your (sic) really living on the edge are ya Barry...
Before the grammar Nazis jump me, I should have written "you're".
My apologies :-)
Regards,
Rich - really has a problem with that for some reason.
------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 00:41:59 -0700
From: jkerouac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: Richard Dorffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>,
"[uucdigest]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: E30Lowering/ Camber question
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
More on E30 lowering, the rear suspension this time:
I should clarify about the camber correcting bushings. This means the
trailing arm bushings are positioned so that the inside bushing of the
rear control arm raises that arm the max possible amount and the outside
is lowered fully. Effectively, you are taking camber out. __But, what
happens when the car leans? As the E30 trailing arm raises, since the
bushing sleeves aren't now in the same axis, the length from the bolt
sleeve to the axle on the outer arm of the Y gets longer, while the
inside arm of the y gets effectively shorter. Thus the tire toes out
more as the car leans to that side. This is the opposite of what
happens on the front suspension.
If you have lowered the rear of an E30, you must correct the camber
and toe in or you will end up with wear problems on the rear tires,
too. Though there is no built in adjustment on the suspension, the use
of the factory offset bushings can acocmplish this nicely. For majorly
lowered E30, you must raise the subframe closer to the floor to get the
rear geometry properly corrected via upside down rear subframe mounts, a
spacer on the bottom of the subframe mount stud, and lowering the
differential's position in the subframe while mounting the diff hanger
up against the floor.
An E30 with a rear suspension done this way will handle on the edge
as much as Rich is judging me to be living on (<8,
Barry
Richard Dorffer wrote:
>--- Richard Dorffer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>>--- jkerouac <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>Re: [UUC] E30Lowering/ Camber question:
>>>btw Another great mind bender is to envision geometry deflections of the
>>>Z link E3/46 rear suspension. The geometry is fascinating. To warm up
>>>for that exercise, imerse your mind in the movement of an E30 rear
>>>trailing arm that has camber correcting bushings installed, the inner
>>>bushing sleeve full up and the outer bushing with sleeve full down. =-O
>>>
>>>
>>Your (sic) really living on the edge are ya Barry...
>>
>>
>Before the grammar Nazis jump me, I should have written "you're".My apologies :-)
>Regards, Rich - really has a problem with that for some reason.
>
>
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:26:11 -0400
From: "Michael Lawrence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: E36 chassis stiffness numbers
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Anyone have the factory published numbers for the chassis stiffness of
the various versions of E36's?
Thanks
Mike
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:35:59 -0400
From: UUC Admin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Admin: Archives
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Hey everyone.
I keep getting lots of emails asking why the archives are down.
Simply put, I have no idea. I don't host them, nor did I set them up.
As soon as I know something I'll pass it on to the list.
Regards,
--
Michael K Donohue
System Administrator
UUC Digest
http://www.uucdigest.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 15:00:36 -0500
From: "Dana LeJune" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: 2000 M5 ("Helga") needs new daddy
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
With some amount of sadness, I must part with Helga (wife driving '97
Expedition and says, "...we can have TWO brand new cars for what you pay for
Helga!"). Details follow:
http://www.cars.com/search/used/cc/standard/results/multiple/fs_search_results.jhtml;jsessionid=WKMRLZRNIBXSTLAZGKWZPRQ?aff=national&certifiedOnly=
Dana Andrew LeJune
Houston
713 942-9898
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 13:13:55 -0700
From: "Marco Romani" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [uuc] 2000 M5 ("Helga") needs new daddy
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
buy her one of those new Hyundai's and put a Mercedes badge on it. She'll
never know ;-)
Marco
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of Dana LeJune
Sent: Friday, April 30, 2004 1:01 PM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [uuc] [UUC] 2000 M5 ("Helga") needs new daddy
With some amount of sadness, I must part with Helga (wife driving '97
Expedition and says, "...we can have TWO brand new cars for what you pay for
Helga!"). Details follow:
http://www.cars.com/search/used/cc/standard/results/multiple/fs_search_resul
ts.jhtml;jsessionid=WKMRLZRNIBXSTLAZGKWZPRQ?aff=national&certifiedOnly=
Dana Andrew LeJune
Houston
713 942-9898
Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/[EMAIL PROTECTED]
__________________________________________________________________________
In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA.
UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate
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908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 14:13:05 -0700
From: John Bolhuis <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [uuc] 2000 M5 ("Helga") needs new daddy
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
On Fri, Apr 30, 2004 at 01:13:55PM -0700, Marco Romani wrote:
> buy her one of those new Hyundai's and put a Mercedes badge on it. She'll
> never know ;-)
Actually, she probably would find out. I saw that Hyundai scored
higher than Mercedes on the 2004 JD Powers initial quality scores.
Heck, Hyundai scored higher than Toyota!
If SWMBO doesn't understand why an M5 is a good thing, then I'm sure
she would be well served in a nice reliable C230/Sonata.
> With some amount of sadness, I must part with Helga (wife driving '97
> Expedition and says, "...we can have TWO brand new cars for what you
> pay for Helga!"). Details follow:
--
"It is an honor to be Cookie Monster."
-Sesame Street spokeswoman Audrey Shapiro
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 20:38:39 -0400
From: "Michael Gambini" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: E36 325 rattling front end
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
and furthermore, you will wear out wheel bearings and other components
rapidly. Been there, done that(without knowing they were bent).
MikeG
----- Original Message -----
From: "Gary Derian" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Bent rims cannot be fixed by balancing. On the balancer thy spin on their
> axis. Weights can be added to make them spin smoothly. On the car, the
> tire rolls on its circumference. If the wheels are bent and not round,
the
> car will shake.
>
> Gary Derian
------------------------------
Date: Fri, 30 Apr 2004 20:46:52 -0400
From: "Brett Anderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "UUC Digest" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: eBay: E34 550i
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Not this time.
Belongs to a customer from Cincinnati.
Brett Anderson
KMS
> -----Original Message-----
> Is this one of Rob L's projects? It sounds like something up his alley
> :-)
---
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 01 May 2004 00:10:27 -0400
From: UUC Admin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [E30M3OG] Piston health
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Phillip,
I cannot stress strongly enough the fact that you should NOT use this
piston again.
Sharp edges inside the combustion chamber create hot spots. (The sharp
edge will heat faster than the smooth areas around it)
These hot spots will cause preignition and detonation.
Since this piston is already damaged, it's structure has been weakened
and likely will not withstand another round of (now guaranteed) detonation.
Even though you say pistons aren't in the budget, just think of what
replacing the better portion (or all) of that motor will cost you.
Hope this helps.
--
Michael K Donohue
System Administrator
UUC Digest
http://www.uucdigest.com
Melahn, Phillip D wrote:
>All,When you would consider a piston no longer good for use? I finally
>got the engine out of the car and got it broken down. The #2 piston is
>missing material off the top rim (or edge) by the right exhaust valve.
>It is a very nice little piece that seems to originate from the
>intersection of the valve relief and the rim or piston edge. It is maybe
>1/16" of an inch wide and seems to be as deep as the elevated edge.
>Other than that, the pistons look great, no signs of valve contact or
>other issues. I can't tell if there is any taper to speak of or sidewall
>scoring as they are not yet out of the block. As you may recall, I was
>hoping to get away with a hone and new rings since my present rings are
>shot. The engine is currently +0.4mm over bore, so if the piston is no
>good, I either need to build up my spare block or look for a good used
>+0.4 piston. I don't have the budget right now to buy a new piston set,
>so if that is my option, I guess I will be waiting awhile. TIA. Phil
>
>
>
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End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(13 messages)
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