The BMW UUC Digest Volume 3 : Issue 411 : "text" Format Messages in this Issue: Re: Big Brother is watching Re: Big Brother is watching Re: Big Brother is watching Re: Big Brother is watching Re: E34 touring rear headests <OT> Subscription fraud Re: <OT> Subscription fraud Re: buying a 3-series touring
---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 09:00:50 -0800 From: Peter Loron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Dennis Wynne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: Clarence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, UUC Digest <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com> Subject: Re: Big Brother is watching Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Yeah, I was just reading this morning (WSJ? Not enough coffee yet) about the DriveCam and AmFam insurance. It is abhorrent, but as a parent also attractive. I know that _I_ pay more attention to obeying the rules when I think there's a cop around, etc. I can see how it would promote good behavior. Dunno what I'll do...although I've got abut 10 years to mull it over. I agree 100% with Paul K's post...basically there's little incentive for an insurance company to lower your rates. And they can set the criteria for being a "safe" driver arbitrarily low. Also, "driving events" that may be unsafe for my kids driving a Tahoe on all season tires in the rain may be perfectly safe for me in my M3 on dry roads. There would need to be universal recording of vehicle actions, conditions, etc and some kind of impartial judge (AI?) for that to really work fairly. -Pete Dennis Wynne wrote: > Sounds like the DriveCam to me: > > http://www.drivecam.com/ > > A couple of years ago I saw the documentary that is mentioned here: > > http://www.cptv.org/local/special/TeensWheel.asp > > and tried to see about buying/renting a drivecam for my soon to be > teen drivers. It was not available at that time, but I could maybe get > in on the beta for $1,500 or so (ouch). > > You fix the "black box" to the window glass and it has/had a front > camera that views the hood and road ahead as well as a driver's cam > that shows what the driver is doing. They also record the in car > audio. What is does is continuously record the video and audio in a > first in, first out type buffer. Then if an "event" is triggered (too > high g' in any direction, with the threshold patent settable) it saves > off the video and audio for xx seconds BEFORE and after the trigger. > So in the event of a wreck, you get to see/hear the before, during, > and after. Pretty clever stuff. You hook up a laptop to the USB port > on the black box and download all the events and watch/listen and plot > graphs and stuff. > > The documentary was pretty eye opening showing the kids really being > bad drivers. One kid with a Mini was the worst (if you were his > parent), he would load it up and get "air" speeding over roads with > dips. That kid didn't have a wreck, but some of the others in the > documentary did - with the drivecam running. > > They STILL do not have this available to the general public yet, but > it looks like they have gone to cell technology to upload the stuff > out of the black box. So it "phones home" and then you can log into a > web page and watch the vids and stuff. > > I ended up putting a Davis "Car Chip" in the car. It plugs into the > OBDII port and records trips, engine load, speed, distance, g's > (acceleration and braking only), and other stuff. They now have one > with an alarm beeper - so you set it for 0.25g or whatever and 70mph > or so and it beeps if that is exceeded rather than wait for the date > to be downloaded and then be fussed at. Like the DriveCam it reports > if someone tampers or unplugs it. So we would pull the chip from time > to time and run reports and check things out. These can be used to > pull codes and reset the CEL lights as well. > > http://www.davisnet.com/drive/products/carchip_products.asp > > There is another company that has a 4 axis version that you install > under the seat that works in a similar manner but can detect high g > turns as well. > > If my insurance company offered me the DriveCam and I had teen > drivers, I would sign right up. > > Dennis > > > On 2/28/07, Clarence <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Given the recent thread on speeding, thought I would pass this along. >> American Family Insurance is offering free in-car cameras for families >> with a teen driver, free for a year. The article refers to a >> 'triggering event' such as hard cornering or abrupt stop, yet a it goes >> on to state that it caught one of the participants doing rolling >> stops..... >> >> Who sets the parameters for the triggering event? Will my BMW's >> cornering speed be dictated by data input for a Chevy Suburban boat? >> >> Using the data in a lawsuit is likely. Imagine the historical data that >> could be amassed and then used against a driver in a lawsuit. >> >> OBMWC: when I viewed the page, there was an ad from BMW. :-) >> >> Clarence - insured by........American Family >> West Bend, WI >> >> >> http://www.jsonline.com/story/index.aspx?id=571405 >> Search the >> ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com >> >> >> __________________________________________________________________________ >> >> In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. >> >> UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate >> Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! >> 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com >> > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 09:57:05 -0800 From: "JS Nord" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com> Subject: Re: Big Brother is watching Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Right - I think that is the real question here - who owns the data? If I own the data and have control over it's use, then I have less issues with the program vs. the alternative. Of course, if I own the data, then I also don't expect to get a discount on my rate. I could see a middle ground position where the insurance company provisions the cameras at low to no cost with the condition that you must take a course on both usage of the camera, interpreting the data and managing youthful drivers. Under this arrangement, I would think some discount would be warranted similar to discounts currently provided for drivers training or good student classifications. Is anyone up on current court rulings regarding who has rights to data in the black box on modern cars? I recall there being some maneuverings on if this data was able to be subpoenaed in a court case or not. That is more interesting in some ways as I recall all new cars have that system and recording ability regardless of if the owner requests it or not... Jeff ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dennis Wynne" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 9:45 AM Subject: Re: [UUC] Big Brother is watching >I think my #1 question I would ask the insurance company is: > > Do you have access to this data? > > Do they see the videos and get the "report card" or just the parents > and the teen driver? If the former, then I would be a little hesitant > to sign up since they could decide your teen is a "bad driver" based > on THEIR criteria and not yours. If they really are just trying to > help, then they will not be looking - then it is between you and your > teen. > > To answer Paul's concern (and yours), as shown on the documentary the > limits could be set. With this insurance tie and other changes in the > system over the last 2 years I could not say - you may have to use > their limits. As to "false alarms" - if your teen has to slam on the > brakes to avoid a car turning in front of them or running a light, the > camera should see this - remember you get 30 seconds (or so) BEFORE > the event and after. So your teen is cruising at 30mph and someone > turns in front of them, they trigger an event with a brake or swerve. > You see these - and congratulate your teen on a job well done. Now if > they are going 60 in a 30 and have to lock them up it is a different > story. Taking the on and off ramp and a higher rate (something I love > to do) would be forgiven by me - but maybe a "slow it down" warning, > while a high g turn like a bootlegger's turn at speed would not be. > > You watch the video, see what happened before and after and what was > said. If your teen as a car load of friends and they dare them to do > stuff - you hear it. If your teen says "watch this" and triggers an > event, you will hear them say it. > > One of the humors parts of the documentary was about one of the teen > girl drivers. She did not wreck and did not speed much, but she took > corners "at speed" so she would set off the event trigger. Nothing > real bad, just did not slow down as much as "normal" for curves in the > road. One time when the download the data they watched the front cam > video and sure it enough, nothing but swerves setting it off. But when > they played back the in car video, it was HER FATHER driving the car! > Seems he need to run an errand and took her car - and he drove the > same, exact way. Clearly she "learned" that was proper from years > riding with her Dad. I would hate to think what my kids learned from > riding with me (hiding head in shame) :-) . > > Dennis > > On 2/28/07, Peter Loron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Yeah, I was just reading this morning (WSJ? Not enough coffee yet) about >> the DriveCam and AmFam insurance. It is abhorrent, but as a parent also >> attractive. I know that _I_ pay more attention to obeying the rules when >> I think there's a cop around, etc. I can see how it would promote good >> behavior. Dunno what I'll do...although I've got abut 10 years to mull >> it over. >> >> I agree 100% with Paul K's post...basically there's little incentive for >> an insurance company to lower your rates. And they can set the criteria >> for being a "safe" driver arbitrarily low. >> >> Also, "driving events" that may be unsafe for my kids driving a Tahoe on >> all season tires in the rain may be perfectly safe for me in my M3 on >> dry roads. There would need to be universal recording of vehicle >> actions, conditions, etc and some kind of impartial judge (AI?) for that >> to really work fairly. >> >> -Pete >> >> > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:15:04 -0800 (PST) From: P Kroon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: Big Brother is watching Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Just to be clear, my comments were directed only towards the benefits/disadvantages from an insurance perspective only. As far as this being a tool for parents to monitor teen drivers, I think it has a great deal of merit (provided that there is sound legal precedent to avoid having the evidence introduced in court in the event of an accident, which I *don't* think there is). Regarding Pete's comment that what is not safe in a Tahoe may be safe in an M3, I dear say that while in theory this may be true, in the VAST majority of cases the driver's limits are by far the limiting factor in safe driving, not the vehicle's limits. -Paul 95 M3 ----- Original Message ---- From: Dennis Wynne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 12:45:26 PM Subject: Re: [UUC] Big Brother is watching I think my #1 question I would ask the insurance company is: Do you have access to this data? Do they see the videos and get the "report card" or just the parents and the teen driver? If the former, then I would be a little hesitant to sign up since they could decide your teen is a "bad driver" based on THEIR criteria and not yours. If they really are just trying to help, then they will not be looking - then it is between you and your teen. To answer Paul's concern (and yours), as shown on the documentary the limits could be set. With this insurance tie and other changes in the system over the last 2 years I could not say - you may have to use their limits. As to "false alarms" - if your teen has to slam on the brakes to avoid a car turning in front of them or running a light, the camera should see this - remember you get 30 seconds (or so) BEFORE the event and after. So your teen is cruising at 30mph and someone turns in front of them, they trigger an event with a brake or swerve. You see these - and congratulate your teen on a job well done. Now if they are going 60 in a 30 and have to lock them up it is a different story. Taking the on and off ramp and a higher rate (something I love to do) would be forgiven by me - but maybe a "slow it down" warning, while a high g turn like a bootlegger's turn at speed would not be. You watch the video, see what happened before and after and what was said. If your teen as a car load of friends and they dare them to do stuff - you hear it. If your teen says "watch this" and triggers an event, you will hear them say it. One of the humors parts of the documentary was about one of the teen girl drivers. She did not wreck and did not speed much, but she took corners "at speed" so she would set off the event trigger. Nothing real bad, just did not slow down as much as "normal" for curves in the road. One time when the download the data they watched the front cam video and sure it enough, nothing but swerves setting it off. But when they played back the in car video, it was HER FATHER driving the car! Seems he need to run an errand and took her car - and he drove the same, exact way. Clearly she "learned" that was proper from years riding with her Dad. I would hate to think what my kids learned from riding with me (hiding head in shame) :-) . Dennis On 2/28/07, Peter Loron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Yeah, I was just reading this morning (WSJ? Not enough coffee yet) about > the DriveCam and AmFam insurance. It is abhorrent, but as a parent also > attractive. I know that _I_ pay more attention to obeying the rules when > I think there's a cop around, etc. I can see how it would promote good > behavior. Dunno what I'll do...although I've got abut 10 years to mull > it over. > > I agree 100% with Paul K's post...basically there's little incentive for > an insurance company to lower your rates. And they can set the criteria > for being a "safe" driver arbitrarily low. > > Also, "driving events" that may be unsafe for my kids driving a Tahoe on > all season tires in the rain may be perfectly safe for me in my M3 on > dry roads. There would need to be universal recording of vehicle > actions, conditions, etc and some kind of impartial judge (AI?) for that > to really work fairly. > > -Pete > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com __________________________________________________________________________ In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ____________________________________________________________________________________ Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:27:28 -0800 From: Peter Loron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: P Kroon <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com Subject: Re: Big Brother is watching Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Absolutely. I think driver training is critical to safety. I cringe thinking back at the almost complete lack of real training I had as part of the high school Drivers Ed program. Basically it was some practice time and studying specifically to pass the licensing exam. No instruction on how to really drive, handle skids, emergency brake, etc. No theory at all. I will point out that I said it was me (who has had a bit of instruction now) driving the M3, not my kid. :-) I definitely plan on having some professional instruction for the kids when they get to that age. -Pete P Kroon wrote: > Just to be clear, my comments were directed only towards the > benefits/disadvantages from an insurance perspective only. As far as this > being a tool for parents to monitor teen drivers, I think it has a great deal > of merit (provided that there is sound legal precedent to avoid having the > evidence introduced in court in the event of an accident, which I *don't* > think there is). > > Regarding Pete's comment that what is not safe in a Tahoe may be safe in an > M3, I dear say that while in theory this may be true, in the VAST majority of > cases the driver's limits are by far the limiting factor in safe driving, not > the vehicle's limits. > > -Paul > 95 M3 > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > From: Dennis Wynne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com > Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Wednesday, February 28, 2007 12:45:26 PM > Subject: Re: [UUC] Big Brother is watching > > > I think my #1 question I would ask the insurance company is: > > Do you have access to this data? > > Do they see the videos and get the "report card" or just the parents > and the teen driver? If the former, then I would be a little hesitant > to sign up since they could decide your teen is a "bad driver" based > on THEIR criteria and not yours. If they really are just trying to > help, then they will not be looking - then it is between you and your > teen. > > To answer Paul's concern (and yours), as shown on the documentary the > limits could be set. With this insurance tie and other changes in the > system over the last 2 years I could not say - you may have to use > their limits. As to "false alarms" - if your teen has to slam on the > brakes to avoid a car turning in front of them or running a light, the > camera should see this - remember you get 30 seconds (or so) BEFORE > the event and after. So your teen is cruising at 30mph and someone > turns in front of them, they trigger an event with a brake or swerve. > You see these - and congratulate your teen on a job well done. Now if > they are going 60 in a 30 and have to lock them up it is a different > story. Taking the on and off ramp and a higher rate (something I love > to do) would be forgiven by me - but maybe a "slow it down" warning, > while a high g turn like a bootlegger's turn at speed would not be. > > You watch the video, see what happened before and after and what was > said. If your teen as a car load of friends and they dare them to do > stuff - you hear it. If your teen says "watch this" and triggers an > event, you will hear them say it. > > One of the humors parts of the documentary was about one of the teen > girl drivers. She did not wreck and did not speed much, but she took > corners "at speed" so she would set off the event trigger. Nothing > real bad, just did not slow down as much as "normal" for curves in the > road. One time when the download the data they watched the front cam > video and sure it enough, nothing but swerves setting it off. But when > they played back the in car video, it was HER FATHER driving the car! > Seems he need to run an errand and took her car - and he drove the > same, exact way. Clearly she "learned" that was proper from years > riding with her Dad. I would hate to think what my kids learned from > riding with me (hiding head in shame) :-) . > > Dennis > > On 2/28/07, Peter Loron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >> Yeah, I was just reading this morning (WSJ? Not enough coffee yet) about >> the DriveCam and AmFam insurance. It is abhorrent, but as a parent also >> attractive. I know that _I_ pay more attention to obeying the rules when >> I think there's a cop around, etc. I can see how it would promote good >> behavior. Dunno what I'll do...although I've got abut 10 years to mull >> it over. >> >> I agree 100% with Paul K's post...basically there's little incentive for >> an insurance company to lower your rates. And they can set the criteria >> for being a "safe" driver arbitrarily low. >> >> Also, "driving events" that may be unsafe for my kids driving a Tahoe on >> all season tires in the rain may be perfectly safe for me in my M3 on >> dry roads. There would need to be universal recording of vehicle >> actions, conditions, etc and some kind of impartial judge (AI?) for that >> to really work fairly. >> >> -Pete >> >> > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > > > > ____________________________________________________________________________________ > Now that's room service! Choose from over 150,000 hotels > in 45,000 destinations on Yahoo! Travel to find your fit. > http://farechase.yahoo.com/promo-generic-14795097 ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:16:28 -0800 From: "Cyrus Liu" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Gregory Bradbury" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com Subject: Re: E34 touring rear headests Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Gregory: Can these headrests be retrofit into an E34 sedan? Cyrus On 2/28/07, Gregory Bradbury <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I'm going to retrofit rear headrests on my E34 touring, I managed to find > sets at a yard in Switzerland when I was there earlier this month. VERY > simple to do, I'll do a write-up and part numbers for the small plastic bits > (some $10-20 at a dealer). > > The short benefit is that I have a spare set of rear headrests (three) > surplus to my needs, in nice condition. They are grey leather, so easy to > redye to match your interior. The covers remove easily (wrap and velcro), > so you could also have redone by a local seat shop. > > Drop me an email if you want the "how to" in advance of my article in > bmwe34.net. > > If you're interested in spare set of headrests, drop me an email. BMW NA > wants more than $120 each, I'd be happy with significantly less -- and help > someone with a nice & easy project. > > > Gregory in Georgia > > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com > > > __________________________________________________________________________ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com > ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:26:29 -0800 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com Subject: <OT> Subscription fraud Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Has anyone else received the subscription come on for Racer magazine? It really infuriates me that they make the form look like an invoice down to the second, underlying copy being a slight yellow to make it look like a contact carbon. The intent is that you think it's a bill and just pay it. Anyone have a phone number for these a-holes? I thought this kind of fraud had disappeared a few years ago. The envelope the forms came in was plain with little contact information other than an PO box address on the flap. [Racer, PO Box 469029, Escondido, Ca. 92046-9092] I'm going to report this to the Ca. State Attorney Gen's office but was hoping to find out who the publisher is and their address. Thanks all, -Kevin ---------------------------------------------------------------- This e-mail communication is confidential and is intended only for the individual(s) or entity named above and others who have been specifically authorized to receive it. If you are not the intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose the contents of this communication to others. Please notify the sender that you have received this e-mail in error by replying to the e-mail. Please then delete the e-mail and any copies of it. Thank you. ---------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 10:39:25 -0800 From: Mark Gold <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Cc: bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com Subject: Re: <OT> Subscription fraud Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> From their website at http://www.racer.com/subscription_center.asp "If your question isnt listed here, please email us at [EMAIL PROTECTED] Or call (866) 462-9773 or (760) 291-1514." On Feb 28, 2007, at 10:26 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Has anyone else received the subscription come on for Racer > magazine? It > really infuriates me that they make the form look like an invoice > down to > the second, underlying copy being a slight yellow to make it look > like a > contact carbon. The intent is that you think it's a bill and just > pay it. > > Anyone have a phone number for these a-holes? I thought this kind > of fraud > had disappeared a few years ago. > The envelope the forms came in was plain with little contact > information > other than an PO box address on the flap. [Racer, PO Box 469029, > Escondido, > Ca. 92046-9092] > I'm going to report this to the Ca. State Attorney Gen's office but > was > hoping to find out who the publisher is and their address. > > Thanks all, > -Kevin > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > This e-mail communication is confidential and is intended only > for the individual(s) or entity named above and others who have > been specifically authorized to receive it. If you are not the > intended recipient, please do not read, copy, use or disclose > the contents of this communication to others. Please notify the > sender that you have received this e-mail in error by replying > to the e-mail. Please then delete the e-mail and any copies of > it. Thank you. > ---------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/ > bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com > > > ______________________________________________________________________ > ____ > In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the > BMW CCA. > > UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate > Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! > 908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2007 13:48:10 -0500 (GMT-05:00) From: Chet Dawes <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Jason Kay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, UUC Digest <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com> Subject: Re: buying a 3-series touring Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Jason, Having recently (late 2006) gone through this I can offer some experiences. I hope your color preferences are very wide. To find a sport package 325ix manual sport wagon is hard. So if you do find one, be prepared to travel or pay a premium. My search was limited to black interiors only with only a couple exterior colors I'd entertain. Like you, I highly desired the sport package. I didn't really desire all wheel drive and I don't care for the iX wheel packages that were offered. The ride height of the ix is higher too, even with the sport package. My list of options had many 'deal breakers' 'cause I know what I like and what I don't. :) I settled on a CPO 325i sport package wagon because I found the right color combo locally on a car in great condition. Happened to be on a BMW dealer lot I trusted as a bonus. I worked them over pretty good on price and they did move significantly, but I had to do my homework to justify my offering price. It had more options than I really needed/wanted but I paid for them instead of transport fees to get some sight-unseen non-CPO car to my door. A compromise or two from my ideal car, but I couldn't be happier as the car is in great condition inside and out, etc. The Xenon lights are really nice if you do any night driving. I have an e46 with (the touring) and one without and they are worth a significant premium to me for night driving! I looked for months to find what I wanted as there just are not very many sport wagons out there with the features an enthusiast would really want. Those few that were ordered that way are still in the hands of the enthusiasts that ordered them! :) They are SO similar to the coupe/sedan that the weak points are the same. The face-lift models (2002+) usually bring more money. The 2001+ had the revised engine and feel more powerful with a steeper throttle gain. The 2003+ are SULEV certified in CA (and the same car in ever other state) and therefore suffer a few drivability differences from the earlier cars. Hope that helps. Cheers, Chet Dawes -----Original Message----- >From: Jason Kay <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Feb 28, 2007 9:44 AM >To: UUC Digest <bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com> >Subject: [UUC] buying a 3-series touring > >Hello mighty list, > >Bambi is on her last legs (the head gasket is starting to leak and the torque >converter is starting to slip... at 173,xxx miles. > >So I was starting to look at E46 Tourings, with a manual, preferably w/ sport >package, and possibly as an ix... other than actually finding one on the >dealer lot, what else should I look for (besides CPO)... are there any good >FAQs or buyers guides out there? >What are known weak points?... > >TIA! > >-Jason >'86 951 "Sparky" >'70 240Z "Dusty" >'97 Contour "Bambi" >'03 325xi "Daisy" > >Search the ARCHIVES:http://www.mail-archive.com/bmwuucdigest@uucdigest.com > > >__________________________________________________________________________ >In memory of Michel Potheau - friend, enthusiast, founder of the BMW CCA. > >UUC Motorwerks - BMW Performance Fine-tuning and home of the Ultimate >Short Shifter - accept no substitutes! >908-874-9092 . http://www.uucmotorwerks.com ------------------------------ End of [bmwuucdigest] digest(8 messages) **********
