---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <s3raphita@...> wrote : Is awareness dependent upon a (human or otherwise) nervous system?
C: I don't see any counterexamples for this but it might be unknowable. S: Because you take your own human awareness as the paradigm case and look for similar instances. C: I am open to hearing about what the options are. What other paradigm other than your own experience of human awareness are you working from? Cats and dogs seem to have similarities in their behaviour to you (with apologies!) so you grant some awareness to them. The further down the evolutionary ladder you go the less human it is so the likelihood of your granting it awareness diminishes. When you hit rocks you say they are inorganic and insentient. C: It is because they lack any way to communicate if they have any awareness as rocks. Plus I have learned from biology that the complexity of the nervous system is tied to the style of awareness. But I accept that we do feel the most affinity with mammals in the animal kingdom who have the emotional brain. I have so much more in common with cats and dogs than lizards because of that shared neurology. How would you know that a rock was aware in any way? Where evolutionists see life and then consciousness arising at some point in time just indicates where they can start to recognize themselves in the mirror of nature. They aren't describing an objective fact but indicating their own (and my!) subjective limits. What kind of awareness could a rock have? It's beyond our comprehension but what we can know is that it isn't unhappy! To be miserable you have to compare your present state with an imagined alternative and rocks can't think (no language). Maybe our Sun is in a constant state of ecstasy as it dances across the sky. C: If you are arguing for the possible, I am with you. If you are arguing for the likely, I am gunna have to bow out. At least until I see one example of awareness not tied to the complexity of a nervous system. Right now the correlation is too intense to ignore. Did awareness exist before the the Big Bang / formation of the universe? S: "To be is to be perceived" (Bishop Berkeley) C: That seems a bit theistic. I think there are things that exist that are not being perceived. Lots of things. Maybe most things. I guess I don't understand what the good Bishop could mean by this. Do you, I would love to hear. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <curtisdeltablues@...> wrote : I'll pick a few to mumble about. ---In FairfieldLife@yahoogroups.com, <seerdope@...> wrote : Is awareness dependent upon a (human or otherwise) nervous system? C: I don't see any counterexamples for this but it might be unknowable. Is awareness the same for all who possess awareness? C: You might have to qualify in what way you mean. Awareness is obviously different for different creatures on the planet who demonstrate qualities of awareness. Do some have more awareness even if the awareness is the "same" for all? C: I think this is one of the claims of Maharishi that is the most problematic for me. It lacks definitions that are meaningful for me these days. Does awareness change? Evolve? Devolve? Fluctuate? C: I used to believe that my "awareness" was more variable than I do today. I think I can show up with the same "amount" of awareness in the way that has meaning for me these days. I can enhance what I am aware of with choice and direction of my attention. That occupies me more. DIdi awareness exist before the mergence of homsapiens? (100,000 years or so ago) C: I believe animals demonstrate plenty of awareness. Early man certainly had plenty. Even Neanderthal was putting flowers in graves. If so, how far back? Do plants have awareness of the degree and magnitude (posited) that humans do? C: I don't see any evidence for that. But their lives have qualities of life worth respecting even if we don't think of them as conscious like us. Do rocks? C: That seems like a stretch. It might require mushrooms to see them that way. Could artificial intelligence "machines" ever become aware? C: They might, we need to keep an eye on that. Can awareness morph into other things? C: Lacks definitions I can follow. Did awareness exist before the earth was formed? Did awareness exist before the the Big Bang / formation of the universe? Does gravitation affect awareness like it does space and light? Does awareness travel at some speed? C: This all seems unknowable or too undefined for me. Is awareness interconnected between (allegedly) aware individuals? C: Interesting concept. I don't believe the jury is in on this. I am open to this possibility but I have not seen any convincing evidence yet. If awareness once did not exist, what was the process of awareness coming into existence? C: The nervous system that could support it? Does awareness abide by the known laws of nature? C: So far it seems to. Kill a brain, awareness is nill. Does awareness have an end? C: It has for many people that I loved. If awareness is suggested to exist forever / eternally, can you suggest a falsifiable experiment for this hypothesis? C: It is unfalsifiable and unprovable which adds to its popularity for some. If awareness has not and does not exist forever, why is is more substantial than any transient phenomenon? C: I have not found that to be the case. Take a little propophol before surgery and you our out out out. Can awareness be aware of itself? C: This lacks definitions in what way if you mean it beyond the obvious. I am aware that I am aware. If so, then what are the "mechanics"? C: It seems to have this inherent property. Some of it may be the way the different parts of our brain communicate to each other creating experiences. Does awareness being aware of itself imply movement, fluctuation, energy transfers, change? C: Not to me. Great thought exercise, how would you answer them?
